Charlie on the MTA over at Blue Mass Group says State House Speaker DeLeo will file a bill to place the Probation Department ...
.. under civil service. Sounds like the right move to me.
What do you think?
Tuesday, December 7, 2010
Probation Department civil service bill in the works
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28 comments:
Bill Trimble...you and your board members, along with former board members, not including the newest members, have actively been dismantling the Civil service requirements for the hiring of a Dartmouth police chief, and deputy police chief. The Dartmouth select board have acted to removing civil service positions out from the Dartmouth police department. Basically, this is the same reason why speaker DeLeo is submitting a bill that will address the immediate and dangerous problem of hiring at probation. It's called CIVIL SERVIVE.
Civil service rules and regulation may not be the best defense against political appointments, but it is much better than having political leaders, servicing political needs.
As an aspiring member of the Dartmouth police, I hope to some day enjoy the appointment to chief, or deputy chief. I have all the necessary degree's, but lack experience. I've dedicated myself to the required time for studying the necessary reading materials, offered by civil service, as required reading for promotions. As it relates to civil service positions removed from civil service rules and regulations protection, I'm not sure I should be studying or wiping the butt's of our appointing authority. Just look at what has happened within the Dartmouth police department list of advancements. Junior patrolman appointed to detective. Patrolmen specialist coming and going. Who's in charge? By removing top positions out from civil service you created the same problems that house speaker DeLeo is attempting to stop. Civil service protection for probation is the intent of house speaker DeLeo.. The question to ask is simple...keep politics away from the police department, and bring back the two positions you and your board/former board members, removed from the hiring protection of civil service. All it takes is an article to be voted on by town meeting members. BINGO!
Hypocrisy.....why did the school department do away with civil service for it's custodian, maintenance employee's? Why did the town selectmen/D.P.W. Commissioners do away with civil service for the water and D.P.W. Employee's? Why are the selectmen remove civil service protection from the Dartmouth police chief, and deputy police chief? It's all because of the political nature of the political beast. The appointing authority wants to fill the above mentioned positions with political workers.
The House speaker, wants to take politics out of probation officer appointments, and wants civil service for all probation officers appointments. Dartmouth is removing civil service protection so they can control the police chief, and deputy chief. The gullible town meeting members go along with the agenda. Stupid is what stupid does.
At the recommendation of a former police chief, the Town Meeting petitioned the General Court, the state legislature, for a Special Act removing the Police Chief and Deputy Chief from civil service. I think it is entirely appropriate the the top guy and his deputy be contract employees.
As you know, civil service rules make it very difficult to remove someone. That should not be the case with the Police Chief and Deputy who should be answerable to the Select Board for the operation of the department.
You apparently disagree with that. Nonetheless, you can advance up to the rank of Captain under the civil service rules. I guess that is when you might want to start "wiping the butt's of our appointing authority." Or not. It is really up to you once you make Captain.
Bill Trimble, you are honest and a respectable person, parent, selectman, and a credit to the human race. Dartmouth is fortunate to have your honesty, integrity, and the simple logic that you provide to the select board. Under NO circumstance will a police captain, if we had one, be advanced to higher rank by wiping your butt, or that of any select board member presently serving on the select board. You must understand that you and the other members will not be select board members for all time. Time will see to that and other townies shall become elected to the board. This is where the uncertainty lays. You have recently observed what our former select board members comprised of, during the Ray Souza Monday night dog and pony show.
I agree, the police chief position be a non-civil service position, but not the deputy police chief. We can disagree with out becoming disagreeable. Civil service was established, became law, for the employee protection from politicians who abused their elected authority, and appointed champagne workers, to state, town/city, employment. In most cases these employee's are answerable to the elected officials.
The house speaker offered legislation to provide civil service protection and employment rules and regulations to our probation officers, a direct result of the above mentioned.
As it relates to the Dartmouth police, and civil service promotions, do you believe it necessary to support a motion to present an article to town meeting members for their support or removal of additional civil service positions, from our police department through special legislation?
Baloney Bill, The Captain's position has been open since Gary Soares was appointed Deputy Chief.
Instead of filling the Captains position the BOS chose to make a special temporarily appoint of Sgt Szala to the rank of LT, an exam he never passed instead of Making a Captain from the Civil Service list.
I agree with you on many points, but this was an absolute disgrace and clearly politically motivated.
You claim you want the two guys in charge subject to the whims of the BOS, yet you bypass 2 people eligible to fill the Captain's position on the approved command structure that YOU approved and make a new position for administrative LT.
Disgusting and disingenuous at best, if not an outright lie. Where is the Captain who should have been promoted when Deputy Soares was promoted back in APRIL!!!
Since you don't know I will tell you. The wrong 2 people are on top of the list and the town is waiting and hoping the new list out in a few months will have the "right" person on it.
The DPD is not better than probation and you refuse to check into that yet decry the probation department for their troubles.
To: December 10, 2010 9:12 PM
You would have more civil service? That certainly served the town well in the past? Like when a certain ex-police officer was terminated on several occasions, arrested and convicted of serious crimes, and then served time in prison only to collect a pension courtesy of the union and civil service. Correct?
I don't believe that any ex cop served time for a severe crime and collected a pension. Even if it did happen you are talking about 1 person out of hundreds/thousands.
That is nothing to use to compare the success of the civil service system to.
I believe felonies automatically cost you your pension, if not that should be part of pension reform not a reason to disband the entire system
12/11/ 2010 @ 1:57 P.M.
As it relates to truth.
It's lying like you that cause so many problems. Allow me to dissect the truth from your lies. Once upon a time, long time ago, the Dartmouth select board suspended a police officer for conduct unbecoming a police officer. Civil service upheld the suspension and the police officer returned back to status after the suspension time ended.
This same police officer was credited with saving the life's of three Dartmouth youths, who crashed a car ending upside down, under the water at the Reed Road lake.
Several years later, this police officer was terminated by the selectmen for allegedly veining an injury. Civil service upheld the selectmen condition for termination, but the former police officer appealed his termination through the legal court system. This is his right to do so, and the union did not become involved with the appeal.
After many years of appeals, and legal fee's, the town selectmen, along with the town attorney's, agreed to put an end to the expenses and settled out of court. This settlement had nothing to do with civil service or the police union. This former police officer was never arrested during his time as a police officer, or serve time in prison.
If he is collecting a pension, it is not the courtesy of the union, or civil service. This is correct.
People like you are the reasons why misinformation is provided to hurt or mislead people in believing your lies. Your the same type of low lifer who whispers in the ear of a selectman, police chief, to gain advantage, or favor.
Lies?
Never arrested during his time as a police officer? How about assault on a fellow police officer? Gee, what happened to the police cruiser that somehow mysteriously caught fire? How about the illegal moving of a house down Highland Avenue and all the destruction caused? We could go on and on can't we? And the union supported him. How about that for your lies?
8:12 A.M.
Civil service protection is for police officers who perform their duty according to department rules and regulations, along with state, federal laws. It's a quasi organization. Everyone wears the same style uniform. Promotions are granted according to civil service testing. It is designed, although not perfect,to discourage political manipulation or favoritism. The police department has a chief who sets policy, and assignments. The police department has a chain of command. Patrolmen answer to sergeants, sergeants answer to lieutenants, lieutenants answer to captain, deputy chief, and chief. This is a quasi “looks like” military organization.
Police officers engage in all types of issues from a barking dog to homicide investigations. Police officers are chosen from the ranks of humans and once in a while you will find the occasional employment hazard.
Civil service was never intended to protect a dishonest police officer, but the legal system is part of the American system. No one is perfect. When it comes to police officers, you will seldom find a dishonest cop. Not to say they don't exist.
The Dartmouth police commissioners (selectmen) have played an active roll in removing two positions, chief and deputy chief, from under civil service selection. Do you feel that Dartmouth is better off now than it was before the selectmen remove the two positions??
"Even if it did happen you are talking about 1 person out of hundreds/thousands."
Frankly, I think "about 1 person out of hundreds/thousands." is one person TOO MANY, in any profession, career, occupation, etc.
Why should there be exceptions to the rules? IF something knowingly happened that shouldn't have, should it be allowed to continue? There should be responsibility taken for one's actions and consequences resulting. What about the 99+/999+ other people who followed the rules?
I think the point trying to be made is that civil service is a one way street. Sure, it protects employees from being subject to the whims of the politicians. However, it also protects the employees from being held accountable for their misconduct. Point being, all the aforementioned litigation was based upon alleged violations of the former police officer's rights under civil service. That being said, in a perfect world we would not need civil service protection would we?
House speaker DeLeo is the top political person at the state house, he is filing a bill to have civil service commission protection, for all probation officers.
Dartmouth Police officer are under the protection rules and regulations of civil service. Town meeting members approved civil service rules for all Dartmouth police appointments.
All my years on the Dartmouth police department, I never received a call from a selectman asking to have something taken care of, or else? I have received calls from friends asking me if anything can be done for someone who has been issued a citation? I simply tell the friend to have the person ask for a traffic citation hearing and settle the issue with the courts. The court, depending on the police officer, issue a court cost for the citation, and reduce it to a warning.
The Dartmouth police members formed a police union in the early seventies. This union is called the Dartmouth police brotherhood union. The union was formed to provide additional work related protection, safety issues, fair labor practice, overtime issues, grievance procedures, and attorney representation, if needed. The police union can not negotiate town benefits that conflict with civil service, or supercede civil service rules. Not that they havn't tried.
I guess the whole going to prison thing was a lie. Did that man ever serve a prison sentence as indicated by a previous anon poster?
I am leaning towards no.
Bill
I have a concern with the select board. It is apparent that police promotions can become political. Maybe you will respond to my concern. Obviously, it's up to you.
It has been indicated that the police chief is accountable to the select board and therefore he/she should not be selected through a civil service commission process. The choice to be made by the select board is based on time in service, administrative experience, college degree's, and personal interview. All this is part of an interview selection committee with the best candidates to be selected and presented to the select board, for their consideration.
Approximately 10 months have passed and the Dartmouth police captain position is not filled. According to civil service, the town has three Dartmouth police lieutenants on the certified civil service list for promotion. The cost to the town is a 15% pay increase or approximately 10,000 dollars. Can you provide any understanding as to why this position remains unfilled, or why?
You are not one to dodge the bullet or blink when some one looks you in the eye. You are the select board chairman. You set the agenda.. Don't dodge this bullet, don't blink, don't shut me out of your blog.
What say you??
When Chief Lee is ready to fill the Captains position, he can ask and the Select Board will call for a civil service list. He has not and we have not. That's all there is to it.
Why can't we be honest? The man on the top of the promotion list for Captain campaigned vigorously for Bob Miller and against Joe Michaud.
This man actually had a higher score on the Captains list than Gary Soares who was promoted to Captain.
This man was verbally attacked by Michaud's sister for assisting the campaign of Miller on his off duty time.
Quite simply, the wrong man is on top of the list and no promotion will happen as long as he occupies that spot.
Backdoor politics, which the current BOS claims they have eliminated are alive and well, don't be fooled.
Thank you selectman Bill Trimble.
I've just won a hundred dollars. You have confirmed that Chief Tim Lee, not the board of selectmen, is the person who doesn't want a captain chosen from the current certified civil service list. Thank you for posting this information on your blog.
Just one more question concerning promotion(s) and appointment(s). If the selectmen are the appointing authority, why do you need permission/request from the police chief to make an appointment that is vacant. As the appointing authority, the selectmen can call civil service for the certified list of candidates for captain, and fill the vacancy. After all, wasn't it the board of selectmen that approved the police command structure. One chief, one deputy chief, one captain, three lieutenants, and sergeants.
If the chief is at a convention with his family, and the deputy chief is hunting on Nantucket, who's in charge?? Don't laugh, it could happened.
The comment above obviously twists what I said to suit a purpose.
In the real world, you fill a vacancy when you need to. Otherwise, you save money budgeted for it, or use that money to cover other expenses. Isn't this likely what Chief Lee is doing? I guess this just shows us the attitude of "what the heck, it is only the taxpayer's money" still prevails with certain people.
I'm in agreement with selectman Bill Trimble. I'm not in agreement with the poster who claims the candidate for captain, who has the higher grade, is not the person the selectmen want to become captain.
My agreement with Mr. Trimble relates to his acknowledgment that when the CHIEF OF POLICE asks for a captain, the selectmen will call for the promotional list for captain. The police chief is the department head and he makes the request for a position and the selectmen appoint one candidate from the list of three candidates. Police department history for appointment/promotion has always been given to the candidate with the highest test score. This is the position taken by civil service. Unless the selectmen can provide a serious job related reason, they shall appoint the candidate with the highest score.
As for my disagreement with the poster, who claims the top candidate for captain, is not the selectman's choice. If the police chief made a requested for the position of captain to be filled by the selectmen, the candidate with the top score will be appointed.
If you have any recall of the last time the selectmen appointed a captain, and a few weeks later, three sergeants were promoted to lieutenant. Lieutenant Gary Soares was promoted to captain because Gary Soares, didn't have the highest test score was the more qualified. The selectmen had to provide a job related reason to civil service commission for by-passing the candidate with the highest score. No appeal, no reason given.
As it relates to your comment concerning the candidate with the high score on the list for captain not being the choice of the selectmen is vague, and unrelated to promotions. It is not a job related issue. Dartmouth police officer's can support any political candidates, as provided by the constitution. Freedom of speech. The same person you are so concerned about received enough votes for promotion to lieutenant. With the exception of one, it's the same select board members.
Remember what selectman Trimble stated, when the chief of police makes a request for a captain, the selectmen will make the appointment. A new list of candidates is just around the corner. WHOOOO... SHALLLLL.... THEYYY.... BEEEE ?? Get all the ax grinders together, this is going to be the greatest show in town.
I believe we have a first rate Police Department. One that is far more effective than the one in place 20-30 years ago. It is a better educated, better trained, and a more professional group than its predecessors. Given that, should we assume seniority is the only factor to be taken into account when the Chief of the DPD decides it is necessary to make another appointment? Not in my book. I want the most qualified candidate based upon more than seniority or a test score. I would suspect the general public would agree.
Like when a certain ex-police officer was terminated on several occasions, arrested and convicted of serious crimes, and then served time in prison only to collect a pension courtesy of the union and civil service. Correct?
NO NO NO, NOT correct!! lets get your facts straight before you abuse a fair system, like civil service.
The Officer You speak was given his job back by an ARBITRATOR, not a civil service Commissioner. Just so you know when you belong to a Union and you are FIRED you have a right to ARBITRATION, if you are also and Union member and Municipal Employee you have a right to choose between Arbitration and Civil Service. The Officer choose arbitration.
Another Christmas present I send you, to lessen you ignorance. Once you are either indicted or Convicted of a Felony you pension disspaears, thus the Officer you speak of does not collect a DIME.
As stated do hate, its Christmas!! Civil Service is a fair process, and it works.
Lieutenant Gary Soares was promoted to captain because Gary Soares, didn't have the highest test score was the more qualified
He was more qualified based on WHAT? Assessment center??, one time interview??, WHAT made him more qualified? The biggest joke in the Town is why Civil service was destroyed. Back in the day it worked well, we had a sergeant who took a test and became Chief for almost Twenty years with no problems right? When he went to leave his hunting buddy wanted the job, but could not beat the smart guy. So what did the Town do?? took the Chiefs' job out of Civil service, the Town spent Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars on a national search and LOW & BEHOLD the favorite Son of the former Chief was chosen. Its a miracle call Benny Hinn!
Look Civil service is not prefect, but at least its fair. Look if you need a BRAIN Surgeon to you want the one who graduated at the top of the class or last?? This is what civil service screens out, a standard or benchmark is set with a test. I care not on the charisma or bedside manner of my physician, I only care about their intelligence and skill, the political fluff stuff is just that.
Brain surgery? Why do people elect to go to hospitals in the Boston area instead of getting surgery done locally? You may well have the option of dealing with someone more experienced down here, but that person may not be the most capable. Physicians themselves often refer their patients to one of the major hospitals don't they? Where are the most critical cases med-flighted to? By your analogy, patients should always be treated locally by someone with more seniority that scored well in medical school 30 years ago right? Of course, they may not receive the best possible care right? That would certainly be consistent with union policies correct?
Let us accept that the civil service commission for what it is and STOP all this mumble jumble talk about this or that..
Everyone inside the Dartmouth police department knows by now that a new civil service list for promotions will be released within the next few days/weeks, The list shall contain the names of each candidate that passed or failed the test.
From this list, one candidate shall be promoted by the selectmen.
I'm voting to re-elect selectman Bill Trimble.
According to a standard times article, Dartmouth boat owner was arrested for transporting large sums of marijuana into U.S. water. The boat owner, who lives in Dartmouth, has a mourning inside the padanaram harbor? ( Apponagansett harbor). No such harbor, called padanaram. Point of law...If applying for a search warrant, to search a boat inside the harbor, make sure it's the Apponagansett harbor.
The article mention chief Lee, along with other law enforcement people, were made aware of the above mentioned, and the chief moved to have the Dartmouth police patrol the harbor. The water ways commission members were 100% against the police harbor patrol. Hmmm??
Chief Lee caught heat from some police insiders, including a selectman, and fin com members. Select board chairman Bill Trimble stood before the DCTV, and proclaimed for all to hear, that the police chief is in charge of protecting our town, and if he wants a harbor patrol, it's the police chiefs authority, and could not understand why the chief was before the selectmen. Chairman Trimble refused to hear a motion to allow the harbor patrol, stating that it is the chiefs call, and that was the end of the discussion. Good for Bill Trimble.
I own three land parcels in town, and you may erect a 4x8 political sign on each parcel.
I agree Bill is a supporter of the Police Department, but in his letter to the waterways commission he said he would let the majority of the BOS determine whether or not to hear the motion.
Regardless of who/whom made the decision I am thrilled the DPD was able to make a difference in an 8 million dollar drug bust.
I am also interested in knowing how much Dartmouth stands to reap in benefits after the suspect is convicted and all his ill gotten property is sold off. Every agency involved is entitled to a fair share of the forfeited goods.
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