A couple of numbers have come to my attention that don't seem realistic to me. The Standard Times reported that estimates of the cost to move a modular classroom across town are nearly $250K. Details here.
Then I heard from a member of the Privatization Study Committee that it costs $140K to produce the absolutely horrible,..............
.............. cheap, weak Official Dartmouth PAYT trash bags. I am talking about the cost to produce them so that we can give them to retailers for sale and distribution.
Both these numbers seem suspect to me. If readers here have any knowledge in these areas, I'd appreciate hearing from you in comments.
Tuesday, May 13, 2008
A couple of numbers that make me shake my head
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24 comments:
Bill -
The cost is to move two modulars from Gidley to DeMello, not just one. That is roughly to cost of purchasing one new unit. There are upgrades that may need to be done according to the Building Dept. and connections costs, (building links, gas, plumbing and electricity).
Why do they seem suspect to you? This language indicates a mistrust of the the numbers or that you feel the school department is hiding something. Did you bother calling Bush Street for a clarification?
This is a very strong sentence for someone in your position.
those numbers were from a company that specializes in modulars and had something to do with the original installation at Gidley. the costs include bringing the modulars up to code and attaching them to the schools. It's not as easy as drag and drop. I'll be happy to send you the estimate and you can see for yourself. Without having the facts your response makes me shake my head.
I agree, it does seem like a lot of money to move two modulars. Did you get more than one estimate? SM, don't be so defensive....these are valid questions from the taxpayers.
The trash bags are not the best for that amount of money either. What about if people purchased stickers to put on their bags? Might be less expensive and we could use stronger bags. I realize they would have to be of the same size.
Suppose the sc was able to find a contractor to move the mods for half the cost, do we have that money to spare? Is this solely to benefit 12 children with special needs? I wish we had the flexibility to make good educational decisions but whatever we do with the current resources must be equitable, benefitting as many children as possible. Preserving programs and personnel would be my preference. Having said that, there are a great number of children at Quinn who would benefit from less crowding.
Anon #1 - I do not have any problem or question anyone who any valid comment about budgetary items or spending.
What I do have a problem with is a member of the Select Board using a comment like "A couple of numbers that make me shake my head" without first contacting the School Department or a School Comm member to see what those figures were about.
Personally, I would never make a public comment like that or make a statement that could very easily be portrayed as "something fishy" about another elected offical or board without first contacting them.
But then again, maybe that is just me.
Mr McDonald,
You are quoted on the Dartmouth Beat blog as saying the cost to move these two classrooms across town is virtually the same as the cost to operate the entire Gidley building for a year. It seems to me that the estimate on which you rely is out of line. That's my opinion. If you want to refute it, do so.
The blog post I cited in the link gives a listing of the costs which include $140K to "break down the two mods" but yet only $77.5K to connect them at DeMello. And regardless of the estimate received, I think it is unusual that it costs twice as much to break down the trailers as it does to reinstall them. Don't you?
It is true that I did not vet my comments on this blog with the School Committee or the school department. It seems to me that there is some kind of bunker mentality at work here. Any kind of criticism or question is meet with howls of protest about unfair treatment. Personally, I think it is my responsibility as a public official to question items presented by the town's employees that don't seem to make sense. Maybe that's just me. If the answers to those questions reveal that I was ill informed, the end result is that I, and everyone else, will be edified. Not the worst thing in the world. I don't feel it is incumbent upon me to research the answer to every question before I ask it. My post was my opinion about a published blog post. Many other people probably had the same reaction as I did to that account. I asked in my post that if readers had knowledge clarifying why it would cost so much move the trailers or manufacture the bags to comment.
You have pointed out, as did Curt Brown's blog post, that you had an estimate. I think that estimate seems out of line. We have generated a bit of heat here, but no light.
Does it make sense to you that we can staff, heat, and light a school building for a year for the same cost as moving two trailers 4 miles?
I find it frustrating Bill that as a newly elected official you are willing to write many paragraphs on your blog to incite people into once again distrust and negative thinking instead of picking up the telephone or communicating directly with the SC. The lack of communication between boards, committees, elected and non-elected officials is one of the biggest problems this town continues to face. So please for the future of this town learn from this example instead of defending yourself.
I agree Mr. Trimble, that you either don't recognize the effect of your words or you intend to create mistrust. If you are shaking your heads at the figures go to the source whether that be the SC or the moving company. Call another company to get an estimate to see if the quote is out of line. If you can offer a solution to a difficult problem, I don't think the SC will dismiss you out of hand. You were not offering an alternative, just second guessing with no information to back up your words. We need all our leaders to come to the table with creative ideas and solutions not just criticism. You should be well aware by the comments left in this blog that your words do create mistrust and in my opinion that stifles constructive ideas. You absolutely should be more informed before making such statements, holding the position on the SB, as you do. It takes time to gain the knowledge and perspective needed to solve our problems, yet we cannot act or speak impulsively.
Everybody should just chill! Now that SB and SC meetings are on different nights, townspeople can attend both and know what's going on with both groups.
Our town officials have every right to ask questions and in fact that is their job! SMcdonald- you should be ready with an answer instead of playing your little 'you don't trust us' act! In light of last year and this year, I think people of Dartmouth have every right to ask questions of any official. Mr. Trimble has a right to his opinon as you do. I agree that the numbers don't add up when it comes to moving these mods. It's not mistrust, it just needs clarification. Again, SMcD, stop playing the victim.
Long before I read Bill's comments, I was shaking my head over the estimate to move the modulars. This seems WAY out of line. Did we get more than one quote? Did we try to think creatively instead of getting bogged down with the "can't do it" attitude?
Bill, now that you are a part of the town leadership, you no longer have the luxury of 'joe blogger' status. If you simply ask questions with heavy handed implications, without the benefit of any information gathering, expect to be criticized for it. Les Miserables will surely take up the call to believe the worst of the schools as they always do, and we are sliding back into the muck of political mudslinging. How about a little leadership? How about a little responsible questioning with a little research before you sound off? How about using your head rather than shaking it? Why are the schools on the defensive? I can't imagine.
Mr. Trimble has accepted the role of one of our town leaders. He is now experiencing first hand what he and many other CFRG members practiced for so long, "Monday morning quarterbacking". He can not just throw stones and expect the mob to follow. He has a responsibility to research and present an educated decision. That is the problem with town meeting goverment. Everybody loves to criticize but they all fall short once they are asked to provide a sound alternative. Mr. Trimble, you have a long way to go to earn some respect and credibility.
I have been shaking my head for a long time with regard to our town's unhealthy fiscal situation. We need to work together to try to solve our problems.
Bill, I think you're doing a fine job! Wow, all you have to do is shake your head, and people jump on it! Your statements were your opinion and many out there agree with you. As you probably already know, you can't please everyone. Some will find fault with anything!
I can't imagine why the schools are on the defensive....... Could it be because the schools have failed to get an override question passed, during two different votes! Perhaps the towns people (not counting Precinct 9) are trying to send a message to the school com.???? After reading S McDonald's post, they aren't listening.....
Anon 10:42, project much? nd mom -- why not run for SC and see how easy it is to run things? You seem to have all the answers...
I remember Bill trimble stating during his candidacy that he really has nothing to do with the school budget and committee. I believ he said he would leave it up to the school committee to set their own budget and administer it. Yet, within one month of taking office he is already criticizing how they do business. Sounds like he already failed to deliver on that campaign promise.
last anon - I could be wrong but the way I remember things is that the funding for the modular move was not coming out of the school budget, but rather a Reserve Fund transfer. Besides the fact that Bill is also a taxpayer, if the money is/was coming from the Gen Gov side, isn't he doing exactly what he was elected to do, and NOT sticking his nose where it doesn't belong?
That being said, I am also glad the school folks see that the estimate is much more than expected, and decided not to push the issue.
Since the taxpayers have no say regarding school money, it is the obligation of the schools to get competitive bids. It is their duty to the taxpayers, not Bill Trimble's. The SC and school administration are not above being questioned or above reproach. If the powers that be ever realize this, maybe we'll begin to make progress. Momof3, there are answers out there, you just don't want to hear them.
Another thing that makes me shake my head is the many here who rush to hold me to account for my opinions but have nothing to say about a school department that has taken NO ACTION at all to provide textbooks for their students.
S Mc Donald, You make yourself out to be so high and mighty but yet you will call WBSM and say things like "we have to get the children out of the boiler room". Yes, I recognized your voice. I won't even go into the ridiculous e-mail correspondance that we had after the CFRG presentation to the school committee. If I were you, I wouldn't be calling other elected officials' principals into question. Your own principals leave a lot to be desired.
Barry Walker - I never called WBSM and do not listen to that station. There is no point to do. The last time I was on the station, I was with Arthur Larrivee and Pat Desmarias on his show. Please do not state I was on the show when you have absolutely no proof whatsoever!
Also, you do not know me to call me "high and mighty" and I consider that an insult. I am far from that and other know that.
It is very easy to post trash about other people, especially when you disagree with them.
Also, to Michael. Those figures came from the company who put those modulars there in the first place and the connection costs came from maintenance staff. They were estimates. In order for the modulars to be moved, if it was pursued, it would have to go out to bid as required by the procurement act. Only then would a "hard" cost be realized. However, the soft cost (architecture, bid docs and advertising) would have to be spent first in order to go out bid and that cost was $20,000.00.
As it stands right now, moving the modulars are not a viable solution.
The last time I checked, every taxpayer and voter has the right to question ALL spending in town! School side and town side. The school gets to spend their money any way that they choose. If they have not included textbooks every year as part of their budget, why not? That is question for the SC. I suppose you would have to go back several years, since the schools say the textbooks are several years old. How often are textbooks replaced anyway? Some subject books can be used a lot longer than others, but I guess the condition of the books because of use is also what we are talking about. In any case, books should be replaced on an ongoing basis. Why this has not been done....I don't know.
It is not about textbooks and computers. It is about using the best argument to get taxpayers to pony up more money.
They do not want to go to taxpayers and ask for money to fund more high salaries or to fund the football team, and selling the replacement of tattered textbooks plays so much better to the media.
Wake up people!
These people would rather lay off the least expensive teachers and punish children by withholding resources than accept a pay freeze or, god forbid, a pay decrease like so many in our community are facing.
It is not about textbooks and computers. It is about using the best argument to get taxpayers to pony up more money.
They do not want to go to taxpayers and ask for money to fund more high salaries or to fund the football team, and selling the replacement of tattered textbooks plays so much better to the media.
Wake up people!
These people would rather lay off the least expensive teachers and punish children by withholding resources than accept a pay freeze or, god forbid, a pay decrease like so many in our community are facing.
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