For the past few years, the budget process in Dartmouth has generated quite a lot of turmoil, as is the case this year as well. The reason for this turmoil is that the town does not have sufficient revenue to support the expense of its operations.
In reality, that situation had been going on for some years prior to it becoming as salient as it is now. As the rapid growth of the town slowed in the early part of this century, the town first cut funding for needed capital improvements in order to fund yearly operations. As the gap between revenue and expense widened, the town used some funds from its enterprise accounts to plug the gaps. The state took a dim view of that and stopped the practice. Then two years ago, the town instituted fees for trash pickup. Finally the town asked for and got an override last year. But the gap between revenue and expense keeps growing and the trash fee and override funds have been swallowed up by the ever widening gap between revenue and expense. Dartmouth’s revenue will fall short of expense for the foreseeable future. The point is that the budget woes are not a temporary situation caused by the recent economic downturn, but are a persistent and systemic imbalance.
The root cause of this situation is that the rate of growth of Dartmouth’s expenses exceeds the rate of growth of revenue. Notice that I stated the problem as rates of growth rather than specific amounts. That distinction is important because it points to the solution. Increasing the rate of growth of revenue requires increased development of the town or yearly Proposition 2-1/2 overrides, neither of which the townspeople have shown a propensity to support. That leaves the expense side...
... and reducing the rate of growth of expenses.
Now some will point to health care, energy, or other factors as the culprit. Those items have contributed to the problem but some 70% of the town’s expenses are due to the people that we employ. The cost of health care, energy, etc. are also outside the town’s control. Any solution on the expense side must address the cost of the services that the town provides as it relates to people costs. Over the past few years, the town has reduced personnel costs by not replacing retirees and some limited consolidation of tasks. Those measures are no longer sufficient as the gap between revenue and expense widens each year. Dartmouth is now faced with layoffs of the people who provide town services and the loss of those services to the taxpayer. In addition, every year going forward will see a further reduction in our workforce and further loss of services. All the while, the taxpayer will pay the same amount (actually 2-12% more each year) for less and less in the way of town services.
Something must change. The choice is to slowly wither away or do things differently. Mr. Michaud, Ms. Gilbert and I have been pushing for consolidation of town departments which reduces management costs, privatization or contracting out town services which can reduce our long term costs for health care and pensions while also reducing the cost of the service through competition for the contracts, and regionalizing services with other towns which can result in increased efficiency. Some have labeled it the CPR approach.
This CPR approach has itself generated controversy. I am not surprised that it has. By their nature, bureaucracies try to maintain the status quo and grow their funding. The current Select Board majority seeks to change the status quo and reduce funding. The push by town departments to maintain the status quo is self defeating. If departmental appropriations for the library, Youth Commission, crossing guards, Parks, Recreation, Conservation, Natural Resources, and others survive this year’s budget, next year will find them on the chopping block again. That cycle will continue year after year.
It is in the interests of the town departments and their administrators to find creative ways to reduce costs. All the town departments must be enlisted in the effort and understand that they will have fewer direct employees. The same is true for members of the Select Board.
Dartmouth doesn’t have sufficient resources to fund the town’s operations on a continuing basis and the town must find different ways to deliver services. That is the message I want to convey to the voters, taxpayers, town employees and town departments. The town government must become more efficient and lower costs at every opportunity including reduction of personnel. Failing to do so will result in jobs AND services provided being lost. Not one or the other but both.
What I have said so far is pretty grim but there is reason to be hopeful. The first step is to get our current operations to a sustainable level. Budget reductions in the town departments have slowed the rate of growth of expenses. This has required some layoffs and more will probably be necessary. If we continue on the path of fiscal discipline that the majority of the Select Board support, if the town consolidates, contracts out and regionalizes where we can, if we use information technology to improve productivity, and if we spend one time revenue wisely, the town will soon have a sustainable operation. But the things that I have listed must be done or the the town will continue in financial crisis.
This year's election is as important as any in my memory because it will determine whether or not the town finds fiscal stability. That's the reason that I support Frank Gracie and Diane Gilbert. Both have the knowledge, experience and fortitude to stay the course and bring a brighter future.
Sunday, March 8, 2009
Fiscal reasons for change
Posted by
Bill Trimble
at
9:38 PM
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Does Dias or Carney support consolidation of town departments?
What about Diane's wild baseless accusations in this mornings sub-standard times? that Lara Stone is meeting with Bob Miller and John George to reinstate Mike Gagne. ANY FACTS.... NO but thats Diane's apparent plan. Throw alot of shi_ at someone and hopefully something will stick.
Will Ms. Stone unequivocally declare that she will not reinstate Mr. Gagne? If not, perhaps the statements are not as wild as you say.
declaration like that are useless. remember Joe and the split tax?
she even states she has no facts but that doesnt stop her. why let facts get in the way.
Gilbert said it herself 'I have no facts to back this up'. Stone is well advised to steer clear of this and let Gilbert sink her own ship.
Voting for Gilbert, Stone will follow her agenda not the citizens.
No doubt a Board with Lara Stone will make different decisions, but that does not justify Diane Gilberts abuse of the truth. There is some irony that the precise characteristics that make her so ineffective on the board will be the ones that prevent her re-election.
Diane's abuse of the truth is typical for Diane Gilbert. Trimble's endorsement in support of her taints his own reputation.
Yes, and Diane Gilbert was criticized for making false accusations about the lifetime contracts too although we now know she was right. She was also accused of being unreasonable and causing mistrust when she kept insisting that executive and open session meeting minutes be released. She was right about that. Some pretty damaging stuff in those. Diane's positions are always attacked from those who are not working in the town's best interests. The record shows she was right all along.
She was not right about bus contracts with the school department. She is not correct about this stuff about Gagne. All interviewed inclduing Gilbert say there is no proof of her accusations
why is the select board bringing in someone to do minutes? why cant Ed do it? everyone blamed michael when he couldnt or didnt. sounds like a admission maybe he had too much to do?
she was WRONG regarding the busing. She was WRONG regarding the school business administrator and his qualifications Even Diane says she has no facts yet here is the story and her accusations. never mind the youth commission slander and wanting to censor thru the select board what appears on board websites. Not thru the individual board but wanting everything to run thru the select board. No to censorship, NO to false accusations, No to Diane Gilbert
Another lost vote
The Stone campaign is also making accusations without basis in fact but more often just engage in a personal attack. They criticize Gilbert for her manner or for asking questions. Disagreement is not incivility. I too can make statements without any backup. Lara Stone is soft-headed, manipulative, intolerant, and mean spirited. Stone wants to pass overrides and cripple the town. Don't vote for her. Does that tell you anything? We had a board that had no disagreement and they gave sweetheart contracts to employees and did nothing while the town sank into fiscal ruin. I have no doubt that the old guard are working against Gilbert. Miller was running against her. Do you have any doubt that they are not?
Lara Stone, your candidate for increased taxes! Pay up, rubes. You aren't taxed enough.
Yes check that MOB file bill is so proud of. maybe we arent. Even Diane has said that.
The story in today's Standard-Times reveals Diane Gilbert for the person she truly is. Gilbert made an allegation to The Standard-Times that there's a deal by her political opponents to save Gagne's job.
She (Gilbert) SAID SHE HAS NO PROOF to support her accusation. "I'm a critical thinker. I'm connecting the dots," she said.
I pray Dartmouth voters read the story and let it sink in. This most recent incident fits perfectly with Gilbert's condescending I'm-better-than-you attitude toward others.
You reap what you sow, Gilbert. You really stuck it to yourself this time! Your days on the Select Board are numbered.
All this apparently(from what i have read elsewhere) because John George said NO to her putting up a sign?
John George is one of many people who voted for Gilbert three years ago, but will never vote for her again.
enough about the contracts. Its actually looking like its going to cost us more as taxpayers than if it was handled in house by rewritting the dam thing! Lets see what law suit comes up next. The 11 do not represent me as a Taxpayer. But have fun. I think at the next writing of the charter this would have had to be changed any way! So lets tie it up in court the American way these days!
Lara Stone will be asked directly if she supports reinstating Mr Gagne at least once during candidates' forums. If she supports reinstating him then she will either have to lie or prove Diane's theory correct. Her supposed outrage at the theory has put her in the position where she is forced to not support Gagne's reinstatement. I hope people who are voting for her just because of the Gagne issue realize this.
AGAIN ENOUGH ABOUT CONTRACTS AND GAGNE LETS GET ON WITH THE ISSUES!!!! ASK JOE ABOUT THE SPLIT TAX????????? HE SAID NO THEN VOTED YES SOOOOOOOO WHAT IS YOUR POINT 12:52???????????
Comes the dawning. The fog is lifting. Could it be that Bob Miller and Lara Stone have cut a deal. Under that circumstance Lara Stone, although she may not yet realize it, would become Bob Miller’s pawn. How scary is that. To what did she agree in exchange for Miller’s withdrawing his comeback bid for the Select Board. Let me guess. Michael Gagne’s contract will be reinstated so Bob Miller can regain his influence over Town Hall and protect certain employees. What Ms Stone does not appreciate is that Mr. Miller is a very cunning politician. She was set up from day one of Miller’s entering the race. He never had any intention of running. He was looking for the deal. He probably got it. If Lara Stone is elected to the Select Board, it will be business as usual at Town Hall. Taxpayers, hold onto your wallets.
10:35, why SHOULD Ed do the minutes, any more than Mike should have done them? Both, especially Mike, when he sat with the Board, are participants of the meeting to some extent. Ed has been asked questions and gives presentations, the same as Michael did.
I truthfully can't understand why Mike was even allowed to do it. For one thing, it gives him two things to concentrate on, the Board agenda and the discussion, questions, decisions, etc., that go on, and secondly, actually recording the minutes and remembering immediately what everyone has said or is saying while having to be aware of the actual proceedings because he may be asked a question, etc., too. I don't know if he has any shorthand. I am only aware of handwritten notes. I don't understand why these meetings aren't recorded. I think they did record the work sessions. I think you have to let people know they are being recorded if it is a private meeting (MA law,) but I also believe I read in the MGL that anyone can record a public meeting without asking this permission of the parties involved. It bears checking, maybe.
I also think having someone not directly participating in the meeting would demonstrate impartiality. The person would not have to understand the agenda, just record what he/she is hearing.
The election can not come soon enough. Goodbye Diane.
I must say you people really twist yourselves into knots trying to justify Gilbert's baseless nonsense. It's all too comical.
I do not think that Ms Gilbert should be making comments without proof or facts, but I also don't need to be a critical thinker or connect the dots to think that there is probably some kind of deal trying to be hatched to get Mr. Gagne's his position back, and I,m sure its being done in secret.
After learning about Gagne, Iacaponi, Dias, Miller, and Copley's meeting to draft the protective provisions and then Copley's pushing them through for signing at the Feb. 27, 2006, SB meeting, prior to the April 2006, election that she feared would result in new individuals being elected to the Board, it's not too much of a stretch to think that people might consider that such unethical activity could still be going on. We don't exactly have a stellar past to compare "politics" today with those back as early as 2005 when Copley started this mess.
Check out Bill's blogs referencing the contracts since Feb 2nd on (I think it is Feb. 2nd. Anyway, you'll recognize the heading) if you want to see Copley's role in this. You can't honestly believe she didn't know what she was doing. If she didn't , that really is scary. Plus, did none of the others question or consider what they were asked to do? If not, that's scary, as well. Either everyone (including her) was ignorant of their actions and the consequences, or not.
We need more taxes! Please vote Lara Stone, then we can all go to the polls in Nov for a group hug before voting to increase our taxes! Lara will make it all OK by asking nicely, "Please increase your taxes!" That's all that is needed, you ingrates, pay up!
Lara Stone and her supporters are a bunch of harpies ready to pick the bones of every taxpayer in Dartmouth. They don't care about anything but getting an override for the schools. Beware!
what's a harpie?
uh yeah. harpies. sure. oh no the secrets out. get serious.
Stone has already stated her position with respect to the Gagne situation, folks. Try paying attention! 1:03p.m.- gotta love it!!! You made my day!
Let’s all pack the candidates forums and ask thoughtful direct questions. Then watch and listen as each individual candidate responds. I do not know who to believe anymore. There is so much false information out there. I am glad more then ever there will be 3candidate debates before the general election.
2:26 It sounds like you are describing Ann Coulter
Let's skip the CFRG forum.
I can't believe this blog would support what Diane said in today's paper. Accusing candidates of making deals, admittedly with no proof, is completely unethical. What was she thinking? How can anyone support what she said today? Bill, you have to admit, she was out of her mind. Her comments were completely unethical and everyone knows it. You can't spin this one.
Excuse me but if Lara Stone has stated publicly whether or not she supports reinstating Gagne, I miised it. If you know the answer, please tell us. I think after today's article she is forced to support the Select Board decision not to renew.
You miss the point. Diane Gilbert falsely accused someone of making deals and admitted that she made it up. It's not about what someone's position is on an issue, it's her character behind the comment. It's slander. The issues will be debated publicly, and we will all know every candidate's positions. But to start a rumor and admit you started it with no fact is mind-boggling.
Yes, lets stick to the issues. Joe Michaud is not up for re-election so why would we discusss his positions on the split tax rate? A relevant issue is the contracts that you would like to forget. They have not gone away and are still having an effect on the town.
I'm not trying to forget about the contracts, in fact, I am against the town having them. But they have nothing to do with Lara Stone or Frank Gracie or Mike Watson. Diane shouldn't have tried to tie any of the candidates to them because it's a ridiculous inference and it made her look ridiculous.
In the article Diane Gilbert did not admit that she made it up , she said she did not have the proof to support her accusation, given time I,m sure the proof may show up in one way or another.
Stone and Watson, the dynamic override duo, swoop in to set things straight by ....uh, what? Oh yeah, they will politely ask us to raise our taxes and calmly sit by while the taxpayers reject it.
MINUTES, the Finance Committee got rid of their paid minute taker over a year ago and Ms. Jenkins and Haskell have taken over. The School Committee pays someone. The Select board should pay someone?
Steve Sharek is responsible for the woes of thecommunity and is planning a takeover of the Town.
Connect the dots......
Sharek is the Moderator. Peter Friedman is on the FinCom. Sharek's wife is a Trustee on the Library Board.
Library Board is not bending over to privatize. FinCom calls for drastic cuts. Friedman write op-ed piece about libraries. Library BOT fire/not renew Director of Library.
Hmmm...I don't have proof on any of this, but let me throw it out there and connect dots later.
Listen to the person who knows the way.
Diane Gilbert has walked into the dark halls of town polotics. Most people wouldn't dare enter the hall that leads to the BEAST. Yup, we have a selectperson who has a pair of brass nuts, and the know all of where to look for the bad guys/girls. Diane isn't only the messenger, she is the right person for the right time. I wouldn't want her on my trail, talk about a blood hound. How many selectman do you know who has taken as much abuse and still wants another three years. Don't be stupid. Don't allow a person like Diane to lose this election. The town needs Gilbert, Trimble, Carney and Michuad. No liers please!! Carney didn't know about the secret contracts. Why! Because Bob Carney trust the beast that lives at the end of the HALL.
It would seem that anyone you don't agree with is thrown into the same conspiracy category. Attacking respected members of the community like Mr. Friedman does not help your argument.
Oh by the way, I have been wondering about this for years. Who killed JFK?
Are you kiddin me Dianne...spewing that kind of stuff..making it up as you go along..politics as USUAL...I will vote STONE 09
Bob Miller dropped out of the race because he knew that support for Lara Stone was strong enough to defeat Diane Gilbert.
Lara Stone is the candidate who is capable of bringing people together. Also capable of working together toward a common goal for the good of the town.
Congrats Diane. You shook the place up. You were good for that. Now its time to move forward. If you know Lara, you would know that she is probably equally as anti the "old boy network" as Diane. Only she has far more class and skill in defeating it.
This is in response to Anonymous 5:14 PM. The "dots" do not connect. Yes, I appoint the Finance Committee. Yes, my wife serves on the Library Board of Trustees. However, I have never -- and I would never -- tell the FinCom or my wife how to vote on any issue. I'd be wasting my breath.
A vote for Stone = putting the school committee in charge of both the school side of the budget AND the general fund. I say thanks but no thanks.
Why has nobody answered the question about Stone. If elected, will she or won't she reappoint Gagne?
don't you know the SB is not in charge of the school dept. budget? didn't you read Stone's comments about what she would've recommended re the Gagne situation? Is the SB re-voting on Gagne?
Bill: You campaigned some time ago before being elected that truth and transparency were paramount for select board members to adhere to as an obligation of the office they are elected to. You campaigned that you would conduct yourself in a truthful, ethical and transpararent manner. You were asked several times about exactly what your relationship was with the CFRG prior to being elected which you steadfastly refused to address. Your spouse recently signed an interesting lawsuit against the town in which the 1st signature was none other than the infamous Barry Walker lead spokeperson for the CFRG. Will you now reveal once and for all exactly what your affilations have been with the CFRG? Both prior to being elected as well as since being elected? Or is being truthful and transparant too inconvenient for you? Please answer honestly Bill as you clearly campaigned on being honest with Dartmouth citizens.
Just my two cents about Ms Gilberts article in the paper..again where she admits she has no facts..reminds me of the following..deperate people do deperate things. Perhaps she thought if she creates a story, people will feel sorry for her. Well I don't. She also lied about the Akin House not being paid for by taxpayers..guess what..your paying for it. She lied about circumventing town meeting to get the town to own the Akin House, yup thats town property. How many of you new that? She had it transferred to the Historical Commission because they can accept gifts, thus not having to go to town meeting for approval. disgusting. So much for her "open government" stance. Get the notes from the Historical Comm its public record.
One last thought, when her group (DHPT) files for bankrupcy (which is coming due to lack of raising funds, bankrupcy void the contract) the town is then responsible for the Akin House, like the town has funds to save this building..Taxpayers get it stuck to them again by our "leaders".
This really is quite simple. Diane Gilbert made an accusation, and when asked by a reporter to substantiate it, she had no proof. All she offered was that she is "a critical thinker" and that she's "connecting the dots".
Stop and think about that, folks. An elected official holding one of the highest elected offices in Dartmouth made an admittedly unfounded accusation about her political opponent. It is nothing short of a serious breach of character. By itself, it begs the question - is Diane Gilbert fit to hold public office? I think not!
Wow Read the 3/9 10:48 PM post, which refers to the “infamous Barry Walker.”
Infamous means having a very bad reputation; notorious; in disgrace or dishonor; scandalous; outrageous.
So why is Barry Walker infamous? Because he had the nerve to become publicly engaged in the political process and oppose a tax increase. This is the mindset of the tax and spend crowd. They have a right to YOUR money so that they can spend it on THEIR priorities. If you oppose them, they you are evil.
Look at all these comments and not one of them by Bill in defense of Diane. I guess sometimes Diane's actions are just indefensible.
Kathleem Horan-Maicleen was called on the carpet last night by David Vincent. He didn't mention her by name but referred to her letter to the paper and said she is a LIER,LIER,LIER. What do you have to say in your defense Kathleen? Do you apologize for LYING or will you stick to your LIE that Vincent put a gun on a table at a public meeting. Looks like your on the hot seat for LYING now. AGAIN. She was caught LYING about the effects of the override in 07, she lost her election by a landslide and she is still LYING,
Did he spell it wrong too? its liar(FYI). Ive heard the Vincent story from far too many people(in the know)to believe its a lie. Very Interesting if what anon 1:05am says is true about transfer to the historical commission of the money pit. conflict of interest perhaps?
Kathleen had better start thinking about a public apology to Vincent for her very public LIE or she may find her law license in jeopardy. Very foolish of her to LIE like that but then again that's what everyone has come to expect from the tax me more crowd.
You better stop picking on Kathleen. She might decide to stick you with her six foot long nose.
Do you guys ever tire of hearing yourselves chatter? Or have you worked up a good constitution from patting each other on the backs.
Ive heard here that patting yourself on the back is good for your flexability as well as kissing each others backsides.
Bill's probably trying to figure out a way to get around his conflict of interest problem. Hope someone copied his statements on that thus far. May come in handy in the future should someone need to "connect the dots".
GUNS AND ROSES. Is it a crime, if the action of a person(s) that causes the death of one or more people, guilty of a crime?
Example: If a man is tressapassing with another mans wife, are they comitting a crime?? As the result of obtained reliable knowledge, the husband takes a gun and kills the wife and himself, who is guity of the murders?? Can a person be guilty of murder, if in fact, he didn't pull the trigger??
If a bartender provides a person with too many beers, and knowing allows the person to continue to drink more beer, is the bartender guilty of a crime if the beer drinker kills two or more people while driving home drunk?? What type of bartender would do such a thing??
Can someone answer the question of whether or not Stone will reappoint Gagne if she is elected? Let's focus on issues and this is an important one to a lot of people on both sides.
Will someone answer this - is the SB revoting on Gagne?
No but Gagne can reapply for the position and if Stone gets elected she could definitely reappoint him. I want to know if given that scenario, would she reinstate him, yes or no.
Stone will run to the ends of the earth to avoid that question. At least we know where Gilbert stands on it.
Are you asking the same of other SB candidates? No single vote can do that.
no of course they arent. Gilbert steps in it up to her hips and its Stone's fault. big surprise. Election day cant come soon enough.
Yes, I would pose the question to every one of them. It is a very relevent question and an important issue for many people. So, what do you say Lara, Bob, Mike, Frank, and Diane? Lara was insulted that someone suggested she would reinstate him so I am assuming her outrage was sincere and that she would vote not to reappoint.
Stupid question. The hiring process started last night with the hiring of an EA search firm. That firm and the EA search committee is charged with submitting a short list of applicants to the SB for ultimate review and selection. That's the proces that has been established and paid for and all the current candidates will follow. What are the odds that this particular search committee will submit Mr. Gagne as one to make the short list? As I say a stupid question meant to bait Stone.
I would like to know who Stone and the others represent. Is it the 25 flashlight vigilists or the other 9,000 voters?
There is a reason Stone won't answer. She doesn't represent me.
If the board is changed in april, can they change the process that has been started by the current select board majority? I would definitely think they could.
I agree with stupid question. Candidates should not be asked questions that reveal their positions on issues. Only stupid people would expect to get answers to questions about real issues. Dartmouth campaigns are only about name calling because the general public is just too stupid to deal with issues that concern the running of their town.
Did you people even read the article? Gilbert makes an utterly unfounded accusation Stone calls it that and you ask why won't Stone answer. Keep twisting it's fun to read.
No need to twist anything. A simple question is being asked and Stone refuses to answer. Her silence speaks volumes.
Answer to who? This blog? You're kidding right?
I agree with anon: 2:31. Anyone answering a question on this blog gets torn to shreds. Does anyone know what David Vincent was spewing about at last nights meeting? What was he withdrawing from? Was it the tax payer suit?
I as a voter am insulted that an elected official would waste my time with this useless non factual based mud slinging when there are very important issues like the fiscal health of our town to address. Why can't Ms. Glbert connect the dots to solve that problem?
I gave Ms. Gilbert 3 years, I won't make that mistake again. I want our town to move forward and I trust from what I have heard and read about Ms. Stone that she will do that in a constructive, productive, and professional manner.
Well, she's not posting here. That's certainly a good indication she's off to a constructive start!
BILL,
Do you support organized Labor?
I am not defending what was said, but I would like to know way the ST even wrote a story like this and then put it on the front page. It was all opinion with no facts. It was like they just wanted to cause trouble in Dartmouth.
Candidates that avoid simple questions like "do you support the ongoing effort to get the ex-exec. administrator reappointed?", do not instill confidence that they will be open and transparent throughout the process of allocating out town's budget. This type of transparency can tick some people off, especially those with special interests but it is the right thing to do. The fact that Ms. Stone's staff patrolling these forums have come up with every reason in the book for her to not answer the question, is disingenuous at best.
BILL: I couldn't agree more with the previous post about needed transparency; Please explain your stance on the following question blogged earlier.
Bill: You campaigned some time ago before being elected that truth and transparency were paramount for select board members to adhere to as an obligation of the office they are elected to. You campaigned that you would conduct yourself in a truthful, ethical and transpararent manner. You were asked several times about exactly what your relationship was with the CFRG prior to being elected which you steadfastly refused to address. Your spouse recently signed an interesting lawsuit against the town in which the 1st signature was none other than the infamous Barry Walker lead spokeperson for the CFRG. Will you now reveal once and for all exactly what your affilations have been with the CFRG? Both prior to being elected as well as since being elected? Or is being truthful and transparant too inconvenient for you? Please answer honestly Bill as you clearly campaigned on being honest with Dartmouth citizens.
March 9, 2009 10:48 PM
Staff? What a joke!
Say goodnight Kathleen. It's way past your bedtime.
Bill is not running, Stone is. Another attempt to deflect the question. Does Lara Stone support the effort to reinstate the ex-ececutive administrator? Yes or No? Does Lara Stone support the effort to reinstate the ex-administrator? Yes or No? Does Lara Stone support the effort to reinstate the ex-administrator? Yes or No? Does Lara Stone support the effort to reinstate the ex-administrator? Yes or No? Does Lara Stone support the effort to reinstate the ex-administrator? Yes or No? Does Lara Stone support the effort to reinstate the ex-administrator? Yes or No?
Oops, almost forgot to ask, Does Lara Stone support the effort to reinstate the ex-administrator?
Tomorrow night will be a great opportunity to ask all the questions you want! The candidates will be at the Grange (not Carney though) and you can get all your questions answered.
It's too bad all the candidates will not be present. If you can't make it to the Grange, attend the Rotary Club's candidate night on the 19th. Both should be very informative.
Lara Stone can't come close to Bill's skills at deflecting questions he does not want to address. Bill is an elected official who happens to enjoy using this blog at times for creating controversy,throwing stones (no pun intended!) and ever so skillfully creating divisiveness in a classic Karl Rove manner...all in the precise interest of propagating the CFRG, Robert Sharples anti-tax platform.
Thankfully we live in a wonderful democracy where everyone can espouse their opinions freely. But elected officials especially those who campaigned on being honest should practice what they preach and address important questions posed to them.
Bill sometimes has challenges when it comes to being honest but given what his wife has now done, he should be held accountable and adress the above questions.
Kathleen, please give it up. You lost big time to Bill Trimble. Now it's time to get over it. The best thing you can do is stop all your attacks because you no longer have any credibility. The other thing you could do is apologize to the citizens of Dartmouth for signing those contracts. Every lawyer, there's been about eight, who has looked at them says the same thing. They are not in the best interests of the town and they can't believe anyone would sign them, especially a lawyer. We all know you hate Diane but you are just making yourself look foolish.
Kathleen has nothing to do with these posts so the continuum of avoiding regular citizen questions of an elected official looks like it may continue...what would Robert Sharples say of this?
Kathleen has nothing to do with these posts. The continuum of citizen questions of Selectman Trimble being deliberatly deflected and avoided seems like it might have no end in sight. Bill should practice what he has preached and be honest to his constituents.
I am a citizen and I am for responsible government. I support our troops, organized labor, mothers, truth, justice, and the American Way. I like apple pie but prefer pumpkin. I like cats and dogs but not birds or snakes as pets.
I think that those who use fear rather than hope to motivate the populace should be ashamed of themselves. Who was correct about overrides based on what has happened? Mr. Walker's group or the "you won't recognize this town" crowd?
I think that rationality is a better tool than emotions when solving problems. Tell us what you think about things here, not what you feel. Your feelings are real only to yourself.
I think it is unfortunate that some want to decide an important election based on a candidates manner and not their stand on issues.
I hope that the comments here will challenge and inform. That is not the case with most in this thread. Too bad about that.
Try making a cogent argument like Dr. Sharples does in his letters. If you are angry about that, it may be cognitive dissonance.
Let's see Bill. I do not recognize this town. It is not the town it was some short five years ago. I see divisiness, rancor, name calling, bullying, badgering and limited or no leadership to change that. Instead I see you write in your last thread in a condescending tone to almost 1/2 of the voters from the last election. It's really too bad, I had hoped for more and better.
The bullying I saw was from the last SB Chair. This board seems to get along pretty well. I don't expect everyone will always agree, but for the most part I get a lot of information when I watch the board meetings and Joe seems to do a good job as chair.
Dartmouth like most communities will resist change, but it is needed especially now.The summit was a good idea. We need to be more proactive.
As far as not recognizing Dartmouth, hogwash! Yes, I would love to have the mall gone so I could see a golf course again. Not gonna happen! These economic times are some of the toughest in years. Maybe we haven't hit bottom yet. We need a board that is forward thinking. People don't want change, but we need to change. I believe Diane Gilbert is the righ person for the job! Diane has my vote!
I know this is getting off the subject but Bill could you tell me who owns the so called park in Smith Mills (Rt.6)? The state or the town? business That was another waste of our money. I go by there daily and have yet to see any one there. There was originally a used car business there for years. Could that land be sold for business?
some answers: as for the Historical Commission, Gilbert and the Akin House. This is why 2 members resigned from the commission, yet noone ever asked them why? Gagne (who also sits on Gilbert DHPT Group) spear-headed the project along with Gilbert. Town Council also (in writing) advised the Historical Commission NOT to accept the property because it was circumventing town meetings approval. Request the minutes of those meetings and vote, and check the deed you will be surprised.
As for the park in Smith Mills, the town owns it, and is suppose to maintain it. That land was purchased thru a grant to the town to make "open space". Although it concerns me that the new business at Faunce Cor & Rt 6 uses it for its employees parking.
Did the selectboard know this Akin House business was going on behind the scenes? The 2 who resigned were they ever contacted by the Selectboard to inquire about the specifics of this activity?
So Im clear, we the taxpayers (at the most recent town mtg) gain $385K to the Akin house, and this was the second time taxpaye rmoney went to this. (I recall voting on this at town mtg). I found it odd that the Historical Commission was not present to offer an opinion about the funds. The taxpayers also paid for town council to review this transfer..wow more $$.
I demand answers, I think the Selectboard should contact these 2 who resigned and have them appear before the Selectboard look into this matter. Something doesnt smell right here. I wish I knew all this prior. How do I get the minutes of the meetings?.
There appears to be a conflict of interrest here.
DPHT members..from Chronicle
May 23, 2007
The DHPT was founded with 16 directors, all sharing a commitment to community and history: President Diane Gilbert, Vice President Daniel Perry, Treasurer James Pratt, Jr., Clerk Peggi Medeiros; Anne Baker, Brenda Dias, Michael Gagné, Susan Guiducci, Hannah Haines, Elsie Haskell, Suzanne Jacobsen, Eileen Marland, Margaret Megowen, David Nolan, Sally Sapienza, and Allen Wing.
old timer - when I said I did not recognize Dartmouth I was not talking about malls and development. I was not talking about physical changes in Dartmouth. Please re-read my post.
Sharples is the last person I would listen to. He is the classic retired professor - conducting himself as though he, and only he, knows everything. I read his letters to the editor and the only thing I find commendable is the grammar. He is one of the most slanted letter writers in Dartmouth.
But I'll tell you this, Trimble... Sharples is likely glowing after reading your kind remarks about him. Like anyone with an ego a mile wide, he basks in glory.
Sharples making a "cogent argument"... now that right there is funny. LOL
After reading the above posts I decided to look into the issue. Since its usual false info is spread here. This is what I found.
WHALE's newsletter (www.waterfrontleague.org/projects.htm) WHALE purchased house in 2003 from distant relatives of the Akin family for $185,000. the Town of Dartmouth voted funds from the Community Preservation Act at town meeting to reimburse WHALE for the purchase price ($185,000)
Oct 21 2008 Town Meeting ARTICLE 29PRESERVATION OF THE AKIN HOUSE
To see if the Town will vote to appropriate $195,000.00 for emergency repairs and structural stabilization by the Dartmouth Heritage Preservation Trust at the Akin House and the adjacent garage and the development of a business plan and market study for the Akin House Cultural Heritage Center.
Ok, So far I got $380,000
(185K + 195K) of TAXPAYER money being spent. The 195K is for is for emergency repairs only.
It appears Preservation hasnt started yet, just in the emergency repair status.
So here are my questions:
1. What will this cost us taxpayers in the end Ms. Gilbert?
2. How much money has your group raised and invested? I only see town monies being spent.
3. Where is the business plan and market study? Since us taxpayers paid for?
(don't you think the taxpayers should see it?)
I agree with the above posts..we need an investigation into this. Bill, can the BOS request past members of boards/commission come before them and answer questions? I say let's contact them, get the minutes of the meeting and look into this.
I visited the above website for WHALE and noticed this:
WHALE has raised nearly $120,000 toward the conservation of this house. Currently, the house has been structurally stabilized and exterior conservation is complete. Now, our efforts turn toward interior conservation of the Akin House as a Cultural Heritage Center. Estimates for this work are upwards of $150,000 so more funds need to be raised. WHALE is in the process of applying for specific grants that would fund the interior work as well as organize fundraisers with all funds going into a dedicated account for the Akin House conservation. Upon completion, WHALE will give the house back to the town.
ok, I know WHALE already gave it back (for a price of course). WHALE raised 120K and was seeking grants. Hmmm.. Ms. Gilbert are you seeking grants too? It says the building is "structurally stabilized and exterior conservation is complete." so what was the 195K for emergency repairs for? What needed to be repaired if the exterior was compete and its been stablized?
I'm begining to see what the prior posts are hinting at. Something doesnt look right...The lack of answers (from Ms Gilbert)is disturbing. I had no knowledge that 2 members of the Hist Comm resigned over this, thats a shame.
I say send those 2 members a letter requesting them to attend the BOS meeting. Lets hear what they have to say in public.
In this mornings STimes and Chronicle, a letter from a Lara Stone supporter states: Diane voted against giving the schools money so I'm voting for Lara. That is exactly why I'M VOTING GILBERT!
The schools need to realize, we are all suffering a fiscal crisis. They get MNSS and are guaranteed that. The town is not.
WE NEED DIANE GILBERT!
BILL: As usual you refuse to address questions posed of you that may prove troubling to much of your constituency. At least you are coming more clean about your most fundamental public policy approach which is 1st and foremost to be ANTI-TAX. For you to speak so highly of the deeply decrepit philososphy of Robert Sharples which is as ANTI-TAX as Barry Walker & the CFRG team speaks volumes about you. Let's not forget how Sharples loves to mock our society's most vulnerable members (our children) and their families. Remember his June 2007 letter to the ST? This from a man whio supposedly devoted his life to education?
Thank goodness we live in a democracy where everyone can express themselves and I resepect you Bill in your attempts to exploit the internet as a tool of government and to create dialogue in our important civic and political processes. I also applaud the process you and others have undertaken to explore options for Dartmouth government to review.
However, it is troubling to many citizens that you lack the intellectual honesty you have led citizens to believe you would employ as a Selectboard member. As long as people get to know you better (which is difficult as you are selective in addressing certain issues & questions), they will either further embrace your public policy approaches or will discard them.
Please be honest Bill. That is all we ask.
You're still saying the same things you said during your run for re-election.
Say goodnight Kathleen.
Bill,
You ask "Who was correct about overrides based on what has happened?"
I'd argue that it is still to early to decide, but the facts aren't favoring the CFRG. We've lost two grammar schools and MCAS scores slid a bit between 2007 & 2008. Admittedly, the decrease in scores was not great nor entirely uniform but it does warrant some concern.
We've also lost our town administrator with hopes of finding someone who can take us in a new direction (although I've yet to hear a lucid explanation of what this "new" direction is). Time will tell whether we can find someone equal in ability and dedication to Gagne who is willing to work for significantly less money. If our SB does not hire the right admin, we could be in a worse situation in a few years than we are now.
We've also lost a youth services advocate and a library director. From all that I've seen, both of these individuals were effective and talented. How will the loss of a youth advocate affect our troubled kids? I guess only time will tell, and perhaps, only the families will know. How will the loss of a library director, who demonstrated an ability to raise private funds, affect library programs, support and finances?
Perhaps most importantly, the biggest change I've seen is in the culture. We now have culture that that gives lip service to being open to various viewpoints but is quick to demean and attack those bold enough to offer these viewpoints. As another poster wrote "I see divisiveness, rancor, name calling, bullying, badgering..."
And add all the new fees on top of what we've lost. I don't think I even know all the fees that have been implemented. I do know that I know pay for trash and a heck of a lot more for the beach. What fees, if any, do school children have to pay?
Dr. Sharples is an advocate for our most vulnerable, but he is also a realist. Sorry to say, many her seem to be in some kind of fantasy land. Overrides will solve all our problems. Dump more money at education and it will solve all our problems. Give more money to our town employees and it will solve all our problems.
NOT. Money is NOT the answer to everything! Fiscal responsibility is what is needed now!
"I am a citizen and I am for responsible government" This is transparency. I know the word disingenuous has been tossed back and forth lately, but if the shoe fits wear it. You seem to feel it politically expedient to stay apart from the divisive dialogue in your own blog while using it for self promotion.
Mr. Sharples is no "realist". He's an academic with a political agenda. There's very little he says that's rooted in reality. He has his opinions, just like everyone else. The difference is, he of the ilk who thinks his opinion is the only one that matters.
Mr. Sharples pontificates on behalf of his chosen candidates with great bluster. LOL
As a previous post has indicated, there are issues having to do with the Akin House that, if widely known, would present severe political problems for one particular candidate. Thus far, those issues have been kept quiet.
I dare say if the roles were reversed and it was an issue that could adversely impact the other candidate, the owner of this blog would be all over it!
Has anyone else noticed how civil the race with all male candidates is compared to the one with all females? I don't quite know what to make of that.
As I have posted many times on this blog, I am not in favor of overrides until we have a sustainable budget where the rate of growth of revenue and that of expenses is somewhat matched. To do otherwise does not work and insures a permanent state of crisis. That said, if the school department or any other wants to put out an override request, I would vote to allow it on the ballot. I would also speak against it, giving the reasons that I have in past postings. My hope would be that the voters would reject it as bad fiscal policy. I would not prevent the voters from deciding.
If we continue on the path of fiscal discipline that we have started and reconcile the rates of growth of expense and revenue, I would support a carefully crafted override to increase specific programs with the caveat that the increase must be sustainable in the long term.
Those here who think that the town could have passed an override and been fine are sadly misinformed. The differential between the rates of growth of revenue and expense would have quickly consumed the override money and you are right back where we are now. The only difference is that you would be paying more tax. I don't know anyone knowledgeable on the town's finances who disagrees with that statement.
On the closing of two elementary schools, I think that your complaint is with the School Committee and administrators. There was no compelling financial reason to close them. Certainly, at least one of the two could have been retained at a very modest cost. I think it was a political decision, not a fiscal one, which backfired when repeated override requests failed.
I'll point out once again that Dr. Sharples makes reasoned arguments. The comments here are attacks that have no substance and contain no argument against what he says just vitriolic bunk. If you disagree with him, tell us why and where your idea is better.
To the concern trolls who are worried about my honesty, point out what I have said that is dishonest. Otherwise you comments are just more bunk.
Let's get rid of Trimble as well as Gilbert ASAP! This is nothing but abuse of power. Time for them to turn the finger toward themselves. Let's have a revolution based on decency and truth. I've had enough of this arrogance. I urge all to leave this blog and never return. It's a total waste of time.
Bill,
I understand and respect your opinion of Dr. Sharples. However, people are often most sensitive to criticism of their personal positions. Dr. Sharples is obviously one of your (and the CFRGs) biggest supporters.
Can you provide an example of something a true opponent wrote that you believe is not "vitriolic bunk"? Cite an editorial or published letter that is highly critical of your point of view but nevertheless appropriate discourse. Because from where I sit, it looks like your definition of vitriol is dependent on the writer's political point of view.
You've been asked whether you are a member or what your affiliation with cfrg is, yet you have not responded.
Anyone concerned about Miller and Dias' role in the contacts? While we're pointing fingers at everyone else on the SB, shall we just forget that their hands are far from clean? Why are they getting off scot free from what they did to all of us? For that matter, why are any of the then-seated Board members getting off scot free? Are we waiting for the court's decision on the contracts' validity and legality?
Gee, one of our SB members really values honesty, too.
And, why hasn't Curt printed anything about Copley, Miller, and Dias' role in the contracts? Why haven't the latter been named in the paper as being the two SB members present at the secret meeting?
Did I miss some reporting here? Is there a reason why some "politics" gets reported and some does not?
This is CFRG central. It's as much your group, Bill, as it is B. Walker's. And 1:19 - two wrongs don't make a right.
BILL: Your overwhelming refusal to answer questions asked of you and your insistence that citizens asking mere questions (without any vitriolic bunk) is completely inappropriate. Will you finally address the articulate questions asked several times earlier below?
"Bill: You campaigned some time ago before being elected that truth and transparency were paramount for select board members to adhere to as an obligation of the office they are elected to. You campaigned that you would conduct yourself in a truthful, ethical and transpararent manner. You were asked several times about exactly what your relationship was with the CFRG prior to being elected which you steadfastly refused to address. Your spouse recently signed an interesting lawsuit against the town in which the 1st signature was none other than the infamous Barry Walker lead spokeperson for the CFRG. Will you now reveal once and for all exactly what your affilations have been with the CFRG? Both prior to being elected as well as since being elected? Or is being truthful and transparant too inconvenient for you? Please answer honestly Bill as you clearly campaigned on being honest with Dartmouth citizens."
There is no bunk here Bill...just questions to better ascertain who you are and therefore judge your opinions going forward.
Kathleen, your campaign was last year. It's over. You lost by a LANDSLIDE. Get over it. Give your candidate, Lara Stone, a chance. She needs to answer the question asked of her. Does she support the reinstatement of the ex-exec. administrator?
Kathleen has not been asking these questions so your defense of Bill evading mere questions from concerned citizens is unfortunate. Why not answer the questions???
Okay, Trimble. You asked for it.
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YOUR VIEW
Credentials aren't everything
ROBERT SHARPLES
Robert Sharples lives in Dartmouth
2/22/09
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(my comments in parenthesis)
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Mr. Sharples wrote: Kate Fentress' recent op-ed supporting Lara Stone's candidacy for Dartmouth's Select Board certainly revealed impressive credentials held by that candidate. Credentials, however important, never portray the whole story. There are questions that need to be answered and things clarified.
(It's interesting that he would say he needs answers and clarifications, given that he ends his letter by stating he is going to vote for Gilbert and urged others to do the same. Apparently, Mr. Sharples found himself in a real dilemma. There is was, late February, and he wasn't able to wait even one day longer for answers and clarifications pertaining to an election that will be held in April. So as not to be overly snide, let me simply state with authority that Mr. Sharples clearly didn't give a hoot about answers or clarifications from Lara Stone. That, my friends, is intellectual dishonesty on the part of Mr. Sharples. Being an academic, I'm sure he understands that.)
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Mr. Sharples wrote: It is important to know what Ms. Stone's agenda and priorities are. I have heard that she is heavily sponsored by the parents' group in Dartmouth and that she is a strong advocate for increased funding for education and libraries. That being true, it presents me with a dilemma. Having spent most of my life dedicated to the former, and appreciating the huge contribution that libraries have made to my personal education and to the education of countless others, placing education and libraries in a secondary category is an anathema to me. I know and agonize over the needs of both, but what are their comparative needs when viewing the larger picture and establishing priorities?
(LOL Here's an idea, Mr. Sharples. Did you ever think of picking up the telephone and calling Lara Stone and discussing her candidacy? Heck, based on what you wrote, it would appear you didn't even take the time to look at her website. She might even share many of your "priorities" and align herself nicely with your "view of the larger picture." Perhaps that would be the case to an even greater degree than Gilbert does. But, how would you know that? Given that your opinions expressed in this YOUR VIEW are rooted in hearsay and are ignorant of Lara Stone's actual opinions and positions on issues, you have no way of knowing that.)
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Mr. Sharples wrote: Under normal circumstances and because we share the same visions, I would consider supporting and voting for Ms. Stone. But circumstances are not normal. Dartmouth's greatest need and priority is its fiscal recovery and stability. Nothing must interfere with those goals. Should there be a continuation or worsening of our fiscal condition, our education system, libraries and our children, as well as all other services, will suffer far more than what is occurring at the present. Simple logic tells me that we must concentrate on recovery and stability first and then, when the time is appropriate and conditions allow, plan and allocate carefully for the future. Then we can salvage all needed vital services and improve them as necessary.
(Ahem... Mr. Sharples... that would be "Dartmouth's greatest need and priority" in the world according to Sharples. In other words, that is entirely an opinion statement. But I'll give you this... you wrote it with lots of gusto! LOL)
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Mr. Sharples wrote: It is important that we know Ms. Stone's position on issues. It is insufficient to simply state the obvious and say that we must work constructively to seek and find solutions to our fiscal situation. History shows that Ms. Stone's opponent shares those same views. How can it be intimated that her skills are superior to Diane Gilbert's? Has Ms. Stone been involved in decision making related to local regionalization, privatization, town enterprises and other sundry town issues?
(Well, there you go, Mr. Sharples. You should agree with yourself on this one. LOL You really should "learn Ms. Stone's positions on issues." I would think an academic would place value on knowledge over hastily coming to a premature decision on whom to support in an election. That is, of course, unless the true intent of your writing was to rationalize a rush to judgment. LOL)
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Mr. Sharples wrote: It is reasonable to surmise that most citizens have their favorite services. This is where perspective and preferences enter the equation. Parents have been very vocal about the needs of education, and one cannot quarrel with their concerns. The needs are obvious. But what is the greater concern? The answer must be the fiscal survival of our town, return to normalcy, and preservation of all vital services.
(My only comment here is that this paragraph is much more enjoyable if you hum God Bless America while reading it.)
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Mr. Sharples wrote: Given present circumstances, I must cast my vote for Ms. Gilbert. She has experience in town government and has shown a keen insight and an in-depth understanding of our crisis and of town finances. She is certainly not silent, and she is articulate when expressing her views or defending her positions. She has experience in the business world, and she, too, exhibits leadership and managerial skills. I am confident that if circumstances were normal, she too would be a leading advocate for education, libraries and our children. Her current vision and position, which should be considered primary, are the recovery and solvency of our town and restoring it to its former position of careful management.
(The most interesting and enlightening aspect of this paragraph is Mr. Sharples unintended indictment of Gilbert for not being an advocate for education, libraries and our children. I also seriously question Gilbert's leadership and managerial skills. Her style is that of an X-Theory manager, and in my opinion, she's not a very good one, at that.)
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Mr. Sharples concluded by writing: "The choice will be difficult for me, but I must cast my ballot for Ms. Gilbert. I urge my fellow citizens to also do so."
(Given my detailed analysis above, Mr. Sharples' statement that the choice is difficult for him is at best disingenuous, and in my opinion is a flat-out lie. Ask yourself this - how can it have been a "difficult choice" for Mr. Sharples when he made his choice unnecessarily early, foregoing nearly two months during which time he could have taken the opportunity to learn more about the candidate he has chosen not to support?)
'NUFF SAID!
Please! Add something to the discussion or go away. I'm getting tired of reading your posts. I enjoy Bill's blogs and most of the time can see where someone else is coming from, but lately it sounds like a bunch of teenagers.
DOES LARA STONE SUPPORT THE ONGOING EFFORT TO REINSTATE THE EX-EXECUTIVE ADMINISTRATOR??? YES OR NO.
My wife and I are friends with Barry and Marianne Walker who helped me in my campaign. I agree with them on many, but not all, isues facing the town.
So you see, Mr. Trimble... Mr. Sharples does not make "reasoned arguments". He's as political as the rest of us - you and me included.
My only point in de-bunking Sharples was to confront a person who places himself on a pedestal in an attempt to have us believe his views are better than those of others. They are not. They are simply opinions, and fairly unsubstantiated ones, at that.
and here's one for all you folks reading, Kim (two post above) would be Bill's wife and rumor has it that she and about 5 other folks have removed their names from the taxpayer lawsuit. Bill can you enlighten us as to why and if one of them was Kim I mean Mrs. Trimble?
Your extensive comment on Dr. Sharples once more shows that you are not capable of forgoing personal attack when advancing an argument. Your comment is a lengthy attack on Dr. Sharples and again offers no reasoned argument to refute his opinion. On what do you disagree with him and why? No way to tell from what you wrote. You seem to find that his opinion published on the opinion page is somehow invalid because it is an opinion. Of course it is his opinion! Where is he wrong in your opinion? Because he didn't call Ms. Stone on the telephone is not a good reson to most, I would think. You end by name calling. Nice.
In my opinion Dr. Sharples said Ms. Stone has been less than forthcoming with her plans. You could have shed light on what those positions are but did not. You could have shown where Ms. Stone has explicitly said somewhere (on her site or in the paper) how she plans to increase funding to schools but you did not. It is obvious reading your comment that you have no argument other than Dr. Sharples is a bad guy and you advanced it poorly.
Let me point to the opinion letter from Mr Kertscher in the S-T today as a reasoned argument that I disagree with but is not vitriol. He argues that Ms. Gilbert should have voted for the 2007 override and gives some reasons why he thinks she should have. I think he is wrong and I have posted why in other places. Mr. Kertscher does not attack Ms. Gilbert for her manner but disagrees her position on soome issues and says why. He then goes on to endorse Ms. Stone and says why he does. Pretty simple stuff.
Bill for the last time Lara says nothing of increasing funding for the schools, she speaks of our town needs as a whole.
Here is where you can find some of her ideas on her website http://www.electlarastone.com/issues2.html
She continues to work on these ideas by meeting with various people in town as well as those in town hall and those from other towns.
You should take some time to speak with her Bill you would like what you hear.
I looked on Lara Stone's web site and cannot find the answer to my question. Does she support the ongoing effort to reinstate the ex-executive administrator????
Let me ask one more time. Why on earth would any candidate respond to a phantom on some biased blog site?
Stone asserted in no uncertain terms her stand on the Gagne issue. The poster that insists she answer should then also insist that Gilbert answer why she sent around e-mails impuning a town emplyee.
Oh and Kim, er um Mrs Trimble perhaps,not sure, if the blog bores you a simple remedy. Do not read it.
Where DO you posters come up with the idea that you know the identity of an anonymous poster?
Thank you, Bill. I agree that Mr. Kertscher's article is certainly appropriate discourse.
How about this letter from Barry Walker? http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090226/OPINION/902260357/1003/town02
Do you feel this is appropriate discourse? Or, is this vitriolic bunk?
It was easy to display Mr. Sharples letter as being purely political. It was neither well reasoned nor articulate.
I'm not so foolish as to think you would agree with me on that, Mr. Trimble. The two of you are political allies.
Bill;
Let me ask this question in a clear manner for you to understand.
Are you, or have you been a member of the CFRG?
Yes or No, would suffice.
Thank you.
Say Good night Kathleen.
The reason why someone is now doing the exec minutes for the SB now is because they changed how the minutes were done and then got rid of the Assistant to the EA. I guess they didn't want anyone to know what was going on.
Mr. Walker states his opinion, contrasts the demeanor of the former Select Board chair with that of the current chair, and draws a conclusion. He gives information on what he sees as the issue (disclosure of public records) and offers a resolution (release them). I don't see a personal attack in his letter. Do you?
Bill,
Yes, I do see personal attacks in this letter. Mr. Walker accuses Ms. Horan McLean of being "prone to innuendos", less than civil and someone who throws "tirades." Whether one personally agrees with the attacks is an entirely different matter. These comments are directed at the character, composure and integrity of Ms. Horan McLean.
If someone wrote a piece like this about Ms. Gilbert, would you're opinion of the article be different? Perhaps the letter may accuse Ms Gilbert of being mean-spirited and prone to fabrication. If so, I suspect that you would classify these accusations as vitriolic bunk.
I think it is important to expect the same level of discourse from CFRG members/supporters as you do from its opponents. Otherwise, your definition of "vitriolic bunk" is determined by a citizen's political point of view.
Tantrums.
It was very obvious from the last election that voters rejected Horan-McLean. I watched many SB meetings where Ms. Horan-McLean pointed her finger and yelled at citizens who came before the board to speak.
I also watched a meeting where Joe Nauuman had to tell her to stop! In my opinion, she was an embarrassment to the town. Many others felt the same and showed their displeasure at the voting booth.
Did anyone read the vitriolic bunk of a letter written by MacLeen that Walker was responding to? As usual, MicLeen was out of control and Walker put her in her place.
Mr. Wslker cites specific instances. While you may disagree with his conclusion. He does make a factual argument.
I will vote against Ms. Gilbert this year for the same reason I voted against Kathleen Horan-McLean last year. Most of us will.
Bill,
Where in that letter does Mr. Walker cite specific examples of tirades or less than "civil" behavior?
But for argument sake, lets assume that he did. Are you saying that personal attacks are okay as long as the attacker cites specific examples? Following this logic, if someone cites Ms. Gilbert's recent interview with the Standard Times, it would be appropriate for him/her to write that Ms. Gilbert is "prone to fabrications." You may disagree with the conclusion, but following your logic, making such an accusation would be entirely appropriate.
Believe me, there are. Ask Ellen Hamilton, for one. And she has lashed out at Barry on a couple of occasions, at least.
It's known.
Kathleen, give it up. You're losing your sanity. I actually don't think you're a bad person but you are starting to come unraveled.
I'm talking about KHM in above post.
Let's all GROW UP and try to stick to the issues. If people want to write poison pen letters to the S-Times: investigate, consider the source and make up your own mind. We all witness meetings, read letters, and look to past performance when making a judgment call. Look at the big picture. We are all interested in our community and going forward. We are in a fiscal crisis. Vote for the person you would want in this situation. This is not a popularity contest folks. It's about issues!
Anon 6:42: If you're being serious, you need help. You see Kathleen everywhere. You're more than a tad obsessed. Seek counseling.
Anon 7:45: The way the issues are framed is important. It seems to me that CFRG's strategy is to attack opponents and then whine loudly when someone reciprocates. If you say this is just politics, then I'm inclined to agree. But it certainly isn't a case of having to "grow up." It is a case of calling a spade a spade and not allowing politicians to feed us doublespeak and hypocrisy. Readers should realize that most CFRG folks (including those in elected positions) are not interested in civil discourse. They merely find it politically advantageous to accuse opponents of being uncivil producers of vitriolic bunk. This may be politically smart, but it is disingenuous.
The CFRG doesn't have to accuse Horan McLean of not being civil. The voters did that.
Funny, is McLean running this year? Perhaps I missed it?
McLean is not running. All three of her supporters jumped out of third floor windows when she lost last year.
8:06 - You say it like it is.
Why are the posters on this blog so obsessed with Horan-McLean? Move on. It's Diane Gilbert's turn to lose.
The same group that supported Horan MacLean, is now supporting Override Queen Lara Stone. Just a thought. I recall how vicious they were last year also!
I LOVE Diane Gilbert. She is the best thing that ever happened to Dartmouth!!!!
cf"i"g loves diane
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