There are many citizens of Dartmouth who give of their time and talents to serve the town. The list is lengthy and runs from PTO's, COA, town boards and committees, Town Meeting, select Board, and many others. Some citizens, while not serving as elected or appointed officials, contribute by attending meetings and adding their perspectives, asking questions, and giving advice. The citizens of this town are her greatest resource! In any government or organization, there are bound to be disagreements and differences of opinion. That is to be expected.
What I find disturbing right now in our town is the lack of civil discourse that occurs when these differences crop up. While I may disagree on an issue with Ellen, Barry, Liz, Nat, Henry, or Phil, I don't think they are bad people. I just disagree on a certain issue. There are some other issues that may come up on which we then might agree. And I am sure that I should I meet any of them at the beach or school event or other function, we'd all have a nice time together. I suggest that when thinking about these differences, both sides keep in mind that those on the other side are just like them. They love their children and families, go to work, school and church, play, suffer personal tragedies and triumphs. They don't hate you, wish you ill, or want to hurt you in any way. They have a different opinion, that's all.
Those others, as citizens, have the same right as you do to advance their arguments in the public forum, in newspaper opinions, public meetings, and even the blogosphere. The public is well able to discern what they will take or leave from the arguments of both sides. So inform them, convince them, make the best argument that you can. The people will see through demagoguery, deception or dishonesty and chose what is best for them. In our democratic system, everyone gets a say but the electorate decides.
Tuesday, March 11, 2008
Citizens and the public forum
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28 comments:
Disagreements and differences of opinion are one thing. But there are too many misrepresentations that have been brought to light here on the part of the CFRG that have harmed our community for far too long. That's what needs to be addressed and rectified.
As you can see, some will be unwilling to let go of their bitterness and seek community in open honest discourse. If we respond in kind, the bitterness and division grow. So let's see if we can advance our opinions while avoiding invectives and barbs. They don't add to your side.
Come on BillT - open and hinest discourse when their is only one opinion the CFRG is willing to discuss?
Refusal to acknowledge that the SB is making many changes but a ship the size of Dartmouth cannot turn on a dime.
Your compatriot, Diane Gilbert, writes in today's Chronicle that those who disagree with the a la cart startegy are 'cynics', is that an invitation for open discourse.
The CFRG's aboslute refusal to let the public know who is pulling Barry and Marianne's strings? What's open and honest about that?
I have been very disappointed as of late with or town Select Board meetings. What happened to letting the public speak? Meetings are not like they used to be! The public used to be able to get up and speak during the meeting, before votes, and at the end. This board is not very kind to its townspeople. All groups & individuals have a right to speak. Let the people watching decide who is looking out for the people and who is not! We are not stupid!
Bring back open meetings!
Diane G. has an opinion! Wow! She doesn't just nod her head like the rest!
You Go Girl!
yep, nd mom, Ms Gilbert has an opinion and based on her comments in the paper today it's that those who disagree with her are wrong.
Open the discussions. We should be able to see our elected officials at all public venues. ALL SHOULD WANT TO SPEAK AND TAKE QUESTIONS WHENEVER POSSIBLE. Avoiding the tough questions is absolutely not kosher with me!
Mr. Trimble, I appreciate this venue you have created! It's a step in the right direction.
umd student -
any time I have wanted to speak at a public meeting I have been allowed. Never once have I been shut out of asking questions, not sure why you have this impression that this is not the case?
Anonymous, if you disagree with someone, present your side of the argument for consideration. If you fail to do that, others will conclude that you haven't anything to add.
As I said, those who disagree are not bad people. Speak to the issues and leave out the personal. It doesn't advance anyone's case or add to the discussion. Can you do that?
Anonymous, I'm glad you have been able to speak. You should always be allowed to speak at a public meeting.
But, after watching and attending some of our SB Meetings of the last couple of years, that is not always the case.
It's a shame! I agree with disappointed.
I for one have no problem with people only being allowed to speak on agenda items. If the item is on the agenda, then the people to answer any questions should be there. This makes for fair, open debate. The problem I do see with the new select board policy regarding public input is inconsistency. Sometimes the public is allowed to speak after the presentation, sometimes they are not allowed until after all the presentations have been made and votes have been taken. As we saw this week, sometimes the public is not allowed to comment at all. The fairest way to do it would be to allow the public to comment after every presentation and before the select board votes. Again, only allowing the public to comment on the agenda items is fair.
Bill T. Less dismissive rhetoric and more answers please.
I, too, have been attending and watching meetings for the last two years. Can't recall a single occasion when one was not allowed to speak. Bill T. should be able to attest to this and assist in setting the record straight.
Bill T. Those who misrepresent aren't necessarily bad people, either, but are dishonest or misinformed. Too much of that has gone on with the CFRG, and the group should be held accountable. You are apparently among the group. Arguments have been presented. Dismissiveness grows division.
My observation is that public comment at Select Board meetings has been curtailed and, at times, citizens have not been afforded the opportunity to express their views on items prior to votes. What is the point of allowing comment at the end of a meeting if the issues have already been decided by vote of the Board? Sometimes, such as the most recent meeting, there has been no public comment period at all. I would advocate for time to be set aside for the public to comment at every meeting and prior to every vote. When dealing with contentious issues, all sides deserve a hearing. I have great confidence in the ability of the people to discern what is in their best interest. The process gains legitimacy if it is seen as fair to all views and everyone is treated with courtesy and respect. I would try to do that if elected.
Assertions are not arguments, feelings are not facts. Name calling is juvenile and counter productive. What do you think about issues and why? If the other side is wrong, how and why? Can you tell us that?
I suggest you reread posts and address the arguments that have been legitimately presented, and answer the questions left unanswered and stop using tactics like your last post. Again, dismissiveness grows division.
Anonymous, Read & Listen. This blog is full of issues and Bill T. has made comments on everything!
If you want to speak to him in person, come to the VFW tonight at 7pm, the Grange (this Sat. night) in Russells Mills or the town hall on the 27th(Thurs.) for the Rotary. All candidates should be present for citizens to ask questions at the Grange & Rotary.
By the way, I just heard that John Fitzpatrick will be the moderator at the Grange on Sat. night.
I can only make one event, but I'm glad to get an opportunity to hear my elected officials speak to me.
Bill T. has not made comment on all issues, only those he selects. He has not answered all questions, only those he chooses to. Readers interested can see that for themselves by visiting all posts. I commend those candidates choosing not to participate in CFRG activities.
Bill T./CFRG has turned away from righting some wrongs here keeping community divisiveness in perpetual motion - one of the biggest of all issues this community is facing!
The constant unsubstantiated attacks against the CFRG only highlights the fact that they are effective and credible. Keep up the good work CFRG!!!!!
Way to go CFRG! Thanks!
Bill T, I'm happy to see some signs around town. You've got my vote!
uku-
I dont 'attack' the cfrg I simply have pointed out inaccuracies and ask them to answer questions about who pulls the strings behind Barry. I also ask them as 'leaders' to address mis conceptions regarding 'perceptions' in our community yet they refuse, rather they continue the 'perception' to serve their own purposes.
When BillT is asked to defend some positions (fro example "where is the proof that our community cannot afford a modest tax increase to maintain services-what makes us so 'poor'?"or even state his membership or affiliation with the cfrg those that ask get dismissed and any arguments brought forth are called 'straw' arguments. It's all very perplexing.
Anonymous,
I would refer you to the first two pages of classified ads in the S-T today. They are filled with forclosures. The housing market has crashed and may I point out that it didn't crash besause last year's override attempt failed. Oil is well over $100 per barrel. My guess is that you are not as well off as you think you are either.
uku - not to worry, I planned ahead, did'nt fall prey to the lure of the mortgage sharks. No house is worth 125% of its value no matter how low the interest rate.
Same thing with credit cards - zero balance imagine that! Own the cars too. No fancy vacations but we still have fun. Plan for these cyclical economic downturns and chances are you'll do fine. I'm not well off no doubt, but not worried either - this too shall pass.
I hope everything is ok with you uku,remember too much debt is a bad thing.
Anonymous,
See we do have something in common. It's that we both adhere to good personal finance practices. Maybe we can build on that and get past the negativity.
Maybe we can use our good personal finance skills to help this town get back to fiscal health!
Dartmouth needs it!
Getting back to the subject of this post, I was looking for the executive session minutes on the town web site. Does anyone know where to find them?
Joe:
You have to request the Executive Session minutes in writing from the Selectmen's Office, attention Mr. Michael Gagne. Click on Mass General Laws on the left-hand side of Bill's web page and type in "Public Records Law." It's MGL, Ch. 66, Section 10. Section 10(a) & Section 10 (b) explain the whole process.
They have ten consecutive (not business) days within which to respond, with an acceptance of your request or a denial. If they deny you, they must state the law (exemption)under which they are making a denial.
If they don't respond within ten days with a satisfactory answer, you may file with the Supervisor of Public Records in Boston that they did not comply with your request. You can also file if they deny you and then the Supervisor will make a decision.
You need to keep copies of your request letter and all correspondence between you and the Selectmen's Office if you have to appeal. Otherwise, you won't be able to do so.
Executive Session minutes are public record once all the issues discussed at the meeting have been resolved.
There most likely will be a fee for retrieval, copying, etc., of the minutes. Ask in your letter to be given an itemized estimate of the cost for this if it is to be over ten dollars before they do any of the work.
The fee structure is listed in that chapter of the laws, as well.
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