Last week I posted here and questioned why the cost of beach stickers was not reduced. This is an interactive blog without any restriction on who can comment. I don't think that my original post in any way impugned the Park department, but apparently some there have taken offense. There was none intended. I asked a question, stated my view and asked for comment. Anyone can then comment and can set me straight if I have made an error. That's how this works. In a letter in today's S-T, ...
...a member of the Park Board sets out the facts. As it turns out, revenue was increased, but as was originally stated, fewer people are using the public beach. The fees do not completely cover the cost of running the town beaches, so some taxpayers are supporting the park department without receiving any benefit. I think that if we can find a way to allow more people to enjoy the town beaches, that is a good thing. Especially since the taxpayer who does not pay the fee is still footing at least some of the bill. Reading through the comments here, the consensus opinion is that the $70 fee is OK but the day pass fee is too high and discourages occasional users. So i would propose the day pass fee be lowered while retaining the annual fee the same. It may result in increased revenue from day passes. What do you think?
Monday, July 28, 2008
Beach sticker dust up
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91 comments:
I think lowering the day pass is a great idea. I didn't get a sticker this year. Although I am able get a ride with a friend (she goes in AM only), I would also like access to the beach in the early evening. I also agree that in just a couple of years the price shot up too high. If the stickers were reasonable, I would still buy one, even if I don't get to the beach often. Now, a day pass would give me access to the beach.
I am a senior and can't afford a beach sticker. I know that some of you probably find that amusing, but I am already getting worried about my oil bill this winter and gas prices for my car. I'm not that close to Round Hill but I would love to be able to enjoy the beach once in a while. It's sad to live in this town all my life and not be able to go to the town beach. What about a day pass for seniors that is reasonable?
To 'senior', I don't find your situation amusing, in fact it's a damn shame. However I don't find paying to send my kids on a bus to HS amusing either, and while I can't afford that I have no choice but to pay up and go without something, and this year it ends up being a beach pass as much as I too like walking on the beach. It's just not in the cards for me.
Just noticing. To take a senior's cat or dog to the vet costs $150 so what's the fuss about the beach dust up or sand blast aver 70 small ones. It is year 2008. $70 is yesterdays ten.
To ND mom, does anyone work or everyone goes to the beach? If people work and can only use on weekends, fifty makes more sense. $20 for cat food.
How many of you have heard of a fixed income? Some of our seniors couldn't go out and get a job even if they wanted to. They probably can't afford a cat or dog. To enjoy an evening walk on the beach is not so much to ask, for a beach that is supposed to be for town residents to use.
For 12:02 who has to pay for the school bus,I know seniors that didn't have a bus to ride to school, they had to walk because they lived a mile from the school. The problem I see with some of you folks is that you have too much. That senior may have to choose between prescription drugs, food, or oil. Walking OUR town beach would be nice, but he or she will get by...
These beach stickers kind of remind me of the street light fiasco
to anonymous 2:39 - I said I sympathize with seniors on fixed income but face it a walk on the beach is nice but getting to school is not 'something nice' it's a necessity. And your story of walking a mile to school is the one my grandfather told me about walking to school in the snow uphill both ways. We live precisely 1.75 miles from the HS and walking is not an option since it involves crossing State Road and traveling down many busy roads with no sidewalks. Buying him a car is not an option either since we too have income limits that force us to choose between 'would'nt it be nice' tings and necessities. Going to the beach is a 'would it be nice' thing for us.
Just came back from the beach with my two children who both take swimming lessons there. I paid $50each for the two of them and $70 for a sticker ($50 if your are a senior), for a grand total of $170. The swimming lessons are wonderful, the instructor was wonderful and the beach was wonderful. $170 is the best money spent for the very professional instruction and entertainment value received. It as just as I remember it when I was a child 35 years ago. Not sure what it cost back then but I sure recognize a wonderful value when I see it, and no I am far from a wealthy individual.
Hats off to the Dartmouth Park Department for making up the revenue needed to almost completely fund their operation (70% is impressive). If I were a betting person I would put my money on the fact that many will soon accept the needed change and realizes what they are missing out on instead of continually complaining about the fact that as time goes on the cost of everything including the cost of a beach sticker must rise (or you vote in favor of an override).
I have to say that I have never seen people complain more about things then here. Yes I was born and raised here but have also lived in other communities in the State and elsewhere in the US and unfortunately I am somewhat perplexed and embarrassed when I read and hear people constantly complaining and never looking at the positive fact that we live in a beautiful Town with a beautiful beach (not many towns have such a beautiful resource). So please be thankful as well as prepared to pay for that beauty. Remember you do have alternatives, vote in favor of an override (which is tax deductible, fees are not), don’t go to the beach, or move elsewhere to find a better place to live.
The way I see it, you can go to the beach for free, but you have to pay for parking. Why not just get a ride and walk down to the beach. That's legal, isn't it?
To 4:19 post, I love it! Just vote for an override if you want this or that. A beautiful beach and streetlights...just vote for an override.
I don't think so! What part of NO don't you people understand!
To anon 4:29 I didn't say to vote for an override, I said quit complaining when you have to pay fees as opposed to a tax deductible override ammount as that is what the "majority" voted for. What part of fee don't you understand??
To anonymous 4:29 it's not just the fee part you don't understand it's the cost of maintaining a beautiful beach that you apparently fail to understand as well as appreciate.
To 4:19 pm-I guess I won't hear you complaining about paying for the bus ride for your children either. It's such a beautiful ride to school, it's a tour of all that beauty, why not pay for it. And you can afford swimming lessons too! What a wonderful life!
I hope when you become a senior you can continue your lifestyle.
Thank you anon 5:07 I truly hope to continue to provide my children with the things I grew up with, a great education in Dartmouth, swimming lessons and fun at Round Hill beach during the summer and a wonderful community of people to live among. Yes that is what I remember Dartmouth to be and hope it can get past all the negativity and angry bitterness you seem to hold, to once again become the community I remember.
And if that means I will have to pay a fee for my child to ride the bus to school then I will have to figure out how to pay for that as my children are my responsibility and God forbid that anyone but myself and my husband ever have to pay for them as many did for me when I was growing up. I truly appreciate the grandparents of today that paid for my education and will gladly be the senior that feels good about where my tax dollars are spent when they are spent on a child. That is the Dartmouth I remember and will continue to hope that people like you come around some day. But I sure won’t hold my breath!
We're being punished because we didn't vote for an override. Just like turning the streetlights off, the price for beach stickers is supposed to piss people off too. It isn't working. I'll never vote for an override. I will vote for new people to find new and creative ways for Dartmouth to change with the times. Our town is in deep dodo unless we make some changes real soon folks and overrides aren't going to fix it.
I don't really care for myself because I don't go to the beach, but I think the town beaches should be for town use and the fact that a town of 33,000 or so can't lower $$ for beach access to allow more residents to go the beach is crazy. It's just another way to try to get people to vote for overrides.All the towns in the area are facing the same thing. Overrides are only a temp. fix.
Wait until Obama gets into office. He won't hesitate to raise your taxes and he does not have to seek your approval either.
Let's take a poll. How many readers of this blog will vote for Obama and how many will vote for Mccain? I can not apply the litmus test with some of the responses here. Priorities are all screwed up.
Just got home. Wow, a lot of posts.
Just for the record, I will be voting for Obama. YES!!
NObama
It's so simple folks, taxes or fees. You can't have low taxes and low fees, nice but not realistic. We have chosen fees so as they go up you have a choice to not utilize the service, discontinue the service, or vote for an override. You can deny it all you want, complain about it al you want but it isn’t rocket science nor is their some magical solution to solve the problem. So please stop complaining and creating the false perception that there is some simple solution if only we worked harder at it. Time to deal in reality, maybe it’s not time for you yet but when your trash fees go up because of the increase in fuel then what will you say. Oh don’t tell me let me guess they are punishing us!
Yes, it is so simple. Start cutting salaries/benefits to a point where they are more REALISTIC. Start privatizing services which would save us money and cut down on employee expenses as well. Pensions must be addressed. There are changes to be made. This may not be the total solution but it is progress. And who knows? Maybe in the process some of the fees could be reduced while still providing the same services.
There are those who would like to keep everything the same but doing things the same has had a negative effect. Stagnation is not the answer. Change will be necessary in order for this community to survive and it will take creative and strong people to make it happen.
So Michael what role exactly have you played in helping to make change besides demanding it?
So Michael what role exactly have you played in helping to make change besides demanding it?
My role is that of a taxpayer who expects that those who are being paid by my tax dollars are being good stewards and doing everything possible to insure that the town is being run with the utmost efficiency. That is their role. My role is also that of a voter who voices my opinions at the polls. As to what I have done to influence change? I have not and will not vote for an override. I feel giving our town leaders more money takes away the incentive to make change. I have not and will not vote for those who are unwilling to change the status quo. I will continue to support people like Bill Trimble who I feel has what it takes to get this town back on it's feet. And I will continue to stay on top of town issues while discussing all of the above with friends, neighbors, & family. Small role? Maybe but these are the things that can bring about the change that is so badly needed. Who are you and what are you doing???
As stated by others - pay the modest fee or stay home. What's the big deal. Want to walk on the beach? Try Smith Neck Road - its free - can you manage that? Simple really. Nice things like a beautiful beach costs money, salaries are not outrageous no matter how many times you say otherwise does not make it so. The beach was wonderful today, thank you Town and Park Department!
Michael, vote or don't vote for anything you want - that's America for you and its wonderful. But once again there ain't no free!
Personally I would be willing to pay for a beach pass that let me take sunset walks. Maybe passes that are only good when the beach is unstaffed could be sold for those who don't require as much service. This may produce additional revenue. Of course these should be less costly because the cost of paying a bunch of kids to look after my safety would not apply. Only in Dartmouth would they kick people off the beach because the owners, (oops) I mean the Park Board wants everyone off at 4pm or 7pm depending on the season.
michael, I agree with you on the salary situation, but I have to question why the town is giving the new Veterans Agent more money then the previous one. From what I understand the previous one accepted and was more the willing to go on a schedule which was all we kept hearing about and wanted from these Dept. heads. And he was lowest paid one. Now we have a new Vets Agent, who I'm sure will do a great job, but will certainly have a learning curve when we had one from what my dad says, brought more info, knowledge and enthusiasm then any previous agents he's seen and did more, like breakfasts and cookouts at no cost to the town. Good for him getting a job with the VA (and probably making more money and deservedly so) but we had someone who more then fit the bill, left him without any word on a contract or schedule and then lose him for what reason? He said it was coincidental on the timing, but I'd have to guess he was tired of playing the waiting game. So now whose next to leave and are we going to pay their replacement more??? I just can't figure out why we are paying more now for someone when we should be cutting back!
No one is forcing you to pay the fee. The beach is a luxury, people
If you couldnt afford additional money for education or the override questions that failed I dont see how you can afford the beach. I cant afford it so I dont go. There are lots of other more productive things I can do as a senior than lie at the beach.
Hey what happened to my post? I may not be so good at this computer stuff but I thought I did it right? Perhaps I was too verbose. The crux of my point was that if people can a reduced or free pass for sunset walks on the beach why cant I get one if I only plan to take a walk during my lunch break and a different one for my wife who prefers sunrise walks to sunset ones. We are both seniors so naturally I would hope that the fee would be waived or reduced.
You can sun bathe for free right along the side of Smith Neck Road. Plenty of people do just that, swim, relax have a picnic throw a line in and maybe catch dinner if you're lucky, watch the boats in the harbor - all for FREE! Round Hill too expensive? Apponagannsett not to your liking? Try Jones beach off Padanaram Avenue - another option. Plenty to do if cost is an issue.
Again, I say people with new ideas are needed in Dartmouth. Too many of the long time officials don't know how to do it any other way. Change and looking forward with improved ways of delivering services takes vision. It can be done.
ALL those who work and volunteer for the town are dedicated people and I thank them for all they do, but we need to think outside the box especially with the state of the economy. It is possible!
I could be wrong, so please correct me if I am, but I think Jones Beach is one of the beach sticker beaches, too.
The previous agent was no great shakes. In fact, he failed to file for state reimbursement for the last year that he was in that position. As a result, the interim agent had to go back and do the paperwork for the entire year. Just ask Mr. Collins if that is true. The new agent is getting the same pay as was proposed to the last one. I don't think he was offered a contract, just a wage and benefit package per the bylaws.
I think we should find a way to take money from people like Michael who favor cutting salaries. We can cut Michael's salary and others who think like him and use the money to subsidize the rest of us so we can go to the beach. But Michael can't go to the beach - he just gets to pay for us to go. After all, that's what Michael and his opinion-mates want to do with someone else's salary. If it's good enough for somebody else, it's good enough for him. Fair is fair.
Mr. Trimble, here is how you started this discussion on the original thread:
"A friend of mine pointed out that the Park Department is making the same amount by selling beach stickers at $70 as they did when the cost was $35. The difference is that only half as many residents can now go to the beach. He wanted to know why ...
... the cost isn't set back to $35 so that more people could go. That's an excellent question. I think that the price should be reduced again and more stickers sold."
You made an assumption that your friend's information was accurate, which it wasn't. That's okay. That kind of thing happens all of the time. But it's what you did next that is the problem - particularly because you are an elected member of the Select Board.
You then offered your opinion - that of a Select Board member - that the beach sticker price should be reduced.
How in the world can you recommend a solution when you are wrong in your assumption about the problem? For a Select Board member to do that is the real problem. We townspeople expect you to at least do minimal checking of facts before making recommendations. That was screw-up number one.
In my opinion, screw-up number two is much worse. When faced with the facts supplied by a Park Board member, you could have simply thanked her for providing the information, apologized for going off half-cocked, and assured us you'd try to do better in the future.
But, no. You chose instead to avoid taking responsibility for your screw-up, and instead offered up a lame attempt to get readers to believe it's okay to promote conclusions based on inaccurate information as a way to prompt debate.
The inability to accept responsibility for making mistakes is not an attractive characteristic of an elected official, Mr. Trimble. You would do well to consider that fact in the future. Even better, in the future you should make an honest effort to understand the facts of a situation before making recommendations.
I think that if they are going to fund the beach by fees, the entire operation should be sustained from those fees. Those who get to enjoy the beach pay and those who cannot afford the fee are relieved of the obligation. That is fair and equitable.
Hold on there a second, anonymous! When did I say I was going to do better in the future? As it says at the top of this blog, it exists to foster discussion. If you read the thread from the first posting, you will see that I pointed out that my confusion came from the way that the fiscal year and the beach season are counted. You have made the assumption that I did not check the facts when I did. Is that a screw up on your part? It was only after my post that I became aware of the discrepancy. The receipts for FY 07 and FY08 are within a few hundred dollars of each other at about $134K. But FY07 began July 1, 2006. Most beach sticker sales are in May and June and that is where I got it wrong. I should have looked at FY06 and FY07. It was a mistake and I have said so. I will make more mistakes, I am sure. If you come across something and feel I am in error, you have every opportunity to correct me. It is my job as an elected official to raise questions that may help the taxpayer. If I am wrong, it is a simple matter of providing the correct material. That is what happened here and I have no regrets about it. You seem to want me just to say nothing and let things continue as before. I think it is better to question and be shown wrong, than just go along to get along.
Nice explanation anonymous 3:37, you explained it better than I ever could. I felt exactly the same way when I read Mr. Trimble's blog entry and subsequent rationalizations. I guess you and I are in error-thanks for clearing it all up Mr. Trimble.
I guess the Park Board member doesn't want to answer the question about running the numbers on day passes. Since we can't seem to get the actual facts from her, let me venture a guess. Very, very few $25 day passes have been sold.
Here's an idea. Why don't all of the people who want to pay more taxes get together and donate it to fund whatever town need you feel is a priority. That would certainly end all the fuss. You could feel good about giving up your hard earned money to a worthy cause and the rest of us can have a little peace.
It's funny that you make reference to cutting my salary while I pay for others to go to the beach. I guess you don't realize what you are saying. That is exactly what is happening right now and why people are angry. Taxpayers are supplementing the cost of the beach but they can't afford to go.
No wally- maybe the park board member is tired of getting slammed and told she should get off the board by the likes of you and others on this blog after donating 15 years of her time to a cause she believes in. If I was in her shoes and was treated like she is some common thief I would not bother with this rag either. Go to a park board meeting and ask your question in person if you want answers. This blog is for the birds or should I say piping plovers.
It's amazing how many comments have been made regarding this topic. It would seem some people want their private beach and resent others for trying to come up with solutions to make it more affordable for others. What is wrong with trying different options? These rather high fees are new and a little fine-tuning couldn't hurt. The taxpayers are paying a portion of the cost for the beach so why would you want to exclude some of them if there may be ways to include them???
What you fail to see is that Mr. Trimble has brought the subject to light as he has with many other subjects and that can never be a bad thing. Remember this is a blog. It is a place to throw out ideas and get responses which can serve to act as a gauge for public opinion. I think Mr. Trimble provided an adequate explanation for the misunderstanding. I myself remember the park dept. at a SB meeting saying they weren't selling enough $70 beach stickers and Ed I. claiming that the revenue was the same as it had been when they cost much less. Apparently it is a very confusing issue even for our town officials. So go on and crucify Mr. Trimble for what you view as this terrible infraction but I appreciate everything he is doing. At least he is looking for better ways instead of plodding along doing the same old same old with the same results. Isn't that a sign of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.
Thanks for the blog, Bill. We need to get more people interested in town govt. and this has been a great way to achieve just that. Opinions, ideas, brainstorming about what we can do as a town to do a better job in the future. I enjoy listening to other ideas. Some are way out there but this is how we can eventually meet in the middle with better town services. Keep it up!
A friend told me that Trimble is reactionary and has a habit of making rash decisions without knowing much about an issue. I think Trimble should stop doing that when it comes to Town business.
anonymous 9:17 - Bill's 'explanation' on this item might be ok if it were the first time this type of problem surfaced onhis blog. The problem is it's not the first time.
blah blah blah, I've heard enough about the beach! Get over it! Move on.
Let me get this straight. A Park Board member comes out swinging on this blog and now she's too sensitive to answer the question about day passes? If she were so concerned about accurate facts, she would post the answer. For a Park Board that has been innovative in the past, they sure are acting like entrenched bureaucrats on this one.
Like I said before, time for new people to run for Park Board. Maybe new people wouldn't think they own the beach.
Too much power and control. 15 years is too long. Thank you for your service but no position should continue for 15 years.
ok anonymous 11:30 - I'll look for your name on the ballot in the fall. it's a wonder anyone wants to volunteer heir time in this community with the likes of some of the people that write hear and all their moaning and complaining. measly $70 fee to use a beach all season for crying out load what a load of rubbish.
I said thank you for service to the town, I just think that with any position the longer someone controls it the more territorial they become. It happens everywhere. That's why I think we need something like term limits in the town. More people would get a chance to be involved in the town and that's a good thing. Again, thank you your dedication and service.
Anyone seen the numbers for day passes?
Are the day pass numbers with the executive minutes?
sounds like we have a real agatha christie worthy mystery on our hands! where's hercule poirot when you need him? what are they trying to hide!
Here is the problem. If you want information from this town most of the time you have to file a freedom of information act to get it. Why should citizens have to go through all that to obtain public information? This is where some of the mistrust comes from. The information requested is not top secret, classified, government security stuff. It is information that should be readily available to the public and if it is not, then it should be presented in a timely manner. Where are the executive session minutes??? Our charter says we should have them but no one can remember the last time they actually saw them. Which leads us to our town admin. but that is a whole different conversation. Maybe a new post about Mr. Gagne's job performance is in order.
Good idea, Michael. Thay way we can chime in about how competent and professional Mike Gagne is. On top of that, he's a good person.
We're fortunate to be served by such a decent guy who is good at his job, and who always treats people with respect.
does michael gagne have a season pass to round hill? the plot thickens...
Please, don't talk about how someone is 'a nice guy' or 'a good person'. We are talking about job performance and accountability. No one said M. Gagne was NOT a nice person. He is a good person, but is he doing the best job for our town? I'm not sure he is...
Are we done with the park board member? Time to move on to M. Gagne already?
Sorry, I thought I was posting on Curt Brown's blog. I hope you will forgive me, your Almighty.
It's too bad people can't listen to other opinions. These are discussions we need to have as a town. We can't do it at the OPEN meetings, that's for sure. It's here or at the coffee shop.
anon 11:28, these aren't discussions this is flat out complaining and whining. Discussions are based upon fact; the whole premise of this post was based upon fiction, gossip and rumor. If the intention of this blog was to try and clear up misinformation rather then spread it then I for one would think it valuable. Based upon this thread, which is the first I have participated in, I think not. Good bye.
I think it would be a good idea to study the number of day passes sold this year and try to determine if that is the best way to go next year.
Most people I have talked to work all week and would only want to use the beach on their vacation weeks or a few evenings. I am interested in knowing how many day passes they sold last year and this year (after the season is over).
Gee, most moms I talk to say they think the $70/season pass is a great bargain compared to the daily cost of the various camps that cost hundreds of dollars a week. I'm thrilled the beach is there and the fee is so reasonable-it's a winderful town asset! Keep up the good work.
I agree with you. If I had kids, the season pass of $70 would be great. Round Hill is a beauty! For people who don't have kids, I think the Town would make more money on the daily pass if the cost were even $15 a day. Or different pass for weekdays, or weekends. There are so many different ways the Town could do it. The $70 could remain the same for folks like you who go with kids more often. I might go to the beach 3 or 4 times during the season. It could be a win win for the Town. Just a thought.
jellfish at beach, beware. They are big and plant a whopping sting...so paying for beach for just July! August too many jellies.
How do we get the beach open til 8 during the week-they rush rush you out when it is at its most beutiful and perfect--this isn't good public attitude.
Why is it that every time someone wants the DAY PASS numbers, some else says what a bargain the SEASON PASS is. Why change the subject?
why? because the season pass is a great bargain. It never occurred to me that I would only go to such a beautiful resource a handfull of times a summer. I maintain it is difficult for anyone to plan for providing a service when day passes become cheap. How does one address that?
Round hill should be a premium cost as it is undeniable that it is the most scenic, least traffic impacted beach in town. Go to Apponagannsett on the cheap and sit alongside the road as cars roar by, watch as the tide retreats and leaves precious little water to use or vice versa. Climbover the trash or listen to the music blaring at the basketball court or playground.
Why is it that so many people want still more service (stay open later for example) and pay less for the extra service? Seems a contradiction to me.
to anon 12:01
I think you might be surprised just how many people would go (only a few times) and it would not place any burden on the beach. They sold 1900 stickers this year and in the past have sold many more.
We need info. on day pass sales. This could be a win win for the park dept.
Worth looking into...
p.s. I have never climbed over trash at Apponagannsett. I like to walk Round Hill beach. Even if I went from 5-7pm, no crowds then and no extra burden on town.
Dear Day Pass, It is pretty clear that the Park Board is going to stonewall us on the day pass issue. I know my parents and grandparents contributed to the purchase price of Round Hill Beach. My father debated in favor of the purchase as a town meeting member in the sixties. Maybe CFRG can do some research on this. We need the facts on day passes. The Park Board doesn't own the beach, the citizens of Dartmouth do.
CFRG do "research?" I doubt it.
Yes because the park board has not deigned to respond to this blog they are 'stonewalling' the citizens of Dartmouth. How dare they! The blog demands answers. Why are'nt they jumping or asking 'how high?' mighty blog. How dare they! Out with them all!
Here's a thought. Get off the couch and go to a park board meeting and ask your question before you start the conspiracy angle.
Yes, the CFRG does do research. You just don't happen to like the findings derived from that research.
ahh yes CFRG the 'good guys' just ask them.
Well, will you look at that! The polls are closed on Bill's blog and it seems the voters have spoken. The majority feel that both the $70 season and $25 day passes are just about right and that the current 70% funding of the park department is just fine too. Good job park department, keep up the good work.
What's next to complain about?
44% think that $70 is too high for a season pass and 53% think $25 is too high for a day pass.(small number voted)
In my book, that's worth looking into for future. It's always worth evaluating town services to deliver the best to the greatest number.
Improving services is a good thing.
Having read the comments here and thinking about the beach fees, I think that I would prefer if the fees covered to the entire cost of running the beaches. I don't think it is fair for the taxpayers who do not use the beach to pay the cost of running it. One possible avenue for increasing that revenue to match the cost may be to reduce the day pass charge and hopefully raise more.
Bill -- We will be heading down a very slippery slope if the Town decides that only those residents who benefit from, or use, a particular service (e.g., Town beaches) should pay for the service. If this approach is extended to other Town-supported functions, only parents will have to pay for school bussing, only seniors will have to support the senior center, et cetera. Running a Town, or government at any level, is a joint effort in which individuals sometimes help fund functions that do not benefit them directly.
I might support Trimble's idea of fully funding beach operations via fees if a Dartmouth Beach Enterprise Fund is used. Even then, I would only support it if the fund were under the total control of the Park Board as a way to block political interference by overly zealous Select Board members pursuing on-the-job training.
By the way, I certainly hope Park Board members step up to the plate and start telling the Select Board how they should be doing their job. It would be foolish for those who serve on the Park Board to limit their public service to the role they are elected to fulfill. And they shouldn't worry about pontificating on topics they know little about. After all, it's a great way to begin much-needed conversations on Town affairs.
Inaccuracies and lack of knowledge be damned! There's biggeer fish to fry in the body politic known as Dartmouth. Follow the leader - just throw a bunch of stuff against the wall and see if any of it sticks! So what if some off the stuff hits people who are minding their own business. Good governmeent has its price!
The town has established several enterprise funds that operate exactly as you describe, those who benefit pay the cost. This is the case with the Sewer Enterprise Fund, the Water Enterprise Fund, the Waterways Enterprise Fund, and the Solid Waste Enterprise Fund. So the proposal is far from unique or a slippery slope. One thing to point out is that these funds pay the entire cost of their operations including support from other town departments (e.g. payroll, accounting, legal, health care and retirement). So establishing an enterprise fund for beaches may raise the fee more than simply the difference between the current revenue and park department budget since these hidden costs would be included.
Every voter in town has the right to comment on ALL things that go on in ALL departments of this town. And that includes our elected officials. They have a right to an opinion just like anybody else.
For those who say otherwise...I wonder what they fear?
Government must be accountable to the people.
Exactly how do enterprise funds work? Where does the money come from? How is the amount determined? Who sets the amounts, fees, and spending?
Bumper sticker idea: 'Taking the community out of Dartmouth; Cheaper for me and best for......ME'
I agre with Bill but feel we should expand on the theme. I'll pay for the police when I need them, the fire dpartment the same. I've got 20 years before I'm a senior so will hold off on paying for the COA now, neber go up Faunce Corner Road so will not participate in the cost of the new traffic light there, don't plan on any building so how much should I remove for the building department cost in my tax bill?
Community? Dartmouth? Oxymoron these days. What's it gonna cost ME? Will I directly benefit? If not, opt out will be my motto.
These are all issues we need to discuss as a town because it can't be business as usual. Look around, all towns are trying to find new ways of providing services to residents. We must change the way we do things in Dartmouth or we are going to be in real trouble. Listen to the Fin. Com. and they will tell you the same thing. Pensions, insurance, etc. is not going to be reduced.
We have changed the way we do business - the damn beach fee went up from $35 to $70! No way can I afford those kind of changes. I already pay taxes, I should be allowed to go to the beach without paying extra for it. They're just punishing us some more.
to anon 11:16
Give it a break. We all pay taxes. Paying a beach fee with taxes, fees, or some combination of taxes and fees is NOT punishment. There is no free lunch.
From my understanding the school dept has to pay all these little town charges(payroll etc...)why shouldn't the other depts?
From what I see posted here, most of you don't mind paying $70 for a beach sticker. Some have even said it is a deal, a great bargain. Maybe next year the sticker price could be higher than $70 and the day passes could be decreased. For moms and kids going all season, it sounds like they think $70 is fine. It's such a beautiful beach, swimming lesson, etc. The town could make more from what I see here.
More than $70 for a beach pass?! That's crazy - I've got to pay for everything my kids do in this town and raising my beach fee so others can get a 'deal' on day passes is not my idea of progress. The park department has already weighed in and said they have made much more this season from past season's - when do you reach the tipping point where people just stay home?
once again you dont HAVE to go. If you think its too expensive stay home. This is what the majority wanted. Just ask the parents paying school fees.No one is forcing them to participate -they choose to and pay their fee. You choose to go the beach pay the fee. Fees for one, fees for all
Again, lets re-examine the price for the day pass so that more of our town residents can go to our beautiful beaches. This should not be about the 'haves' and 'have nots'.
If you are truly working for Dartmouth, you would try to get the services to the most people you could.
If moms with kids don't mind the $70 sticker, fine. Some feel the day pass is too high. Lets look at it!
What do you mean it should not be about the 'haves and have nots'? That is exactly what Bill Trimble is proposing for the schools when he says sports and music should be eliminated from the school budget and paid for by those that participate. If you dont 'have' the money you will not particpate. Sounds like a clear case of advocating for the 'haves' at the expense of the 'have nots'. If it applies to the schools apply it to the beaches. Pay the fees or stay home.
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