A friend of mine pointed out that the Park Department is making the same amount by selling beach stickers at $70 as they did when the cost was $35. The difference is that only half as many residents can now go to the beach. He wanted to know why ...
... the cost isn't set back to $35 so that more people could go. That's an excellent question. I think that the price should be reduced again and more stickers sold. Discuss in comments as usual.
Monday, July 14, 2008
Round Hill stickers
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106 comments:
I have been working for the last few weeks where I can clearly see the entire Round Hill Beach. This past saturday I observed that there were concentrations of people close to the creek area and close to the bath house area. There were sparse amounts of people between and almost nobody on the wharf end. While I certainly understand why the Park Board tried raising fees and selling stickers to out of towners, it is clear that this attempt to raise more revenue did not work. Only people who have the time and know that they will be spending lots of time at the beach or those with a lot of money will pay that much for a sticker. It seems that the unintentional result of this policy is the creation of a beach that is as private as a public beach can get. This only serves to alienate more people from the Dartmouth "community".
When i went-this weekend it was packed...crowded, but lower the amoutn to $50...a middle amt.
My opinion is different. It doesnt matter the price at all. Its a matter of economics. Gas is high , food costs are high. I have to pay for a transfer station sticker, park sticker and a beach sticker . This is crazy. No beach this year for me. priorities.
I have decided to avoid a beach pass at round hill due to the cost. 35 or $50 would be more reasonable. It is open for such a short season, unlike other town's beaches that I think $70 makes it simply not worth it.
I did not buy a sticker to Round Hill this year. $70 is way too much money. I have a friend who goes several times a week and she has invited me to go with her. So far, I have not been to the beach. If I do go with my friend, I'll give her some money to help pay for the sticker.
In years past, I bought a sticker every year even if I only went to the beach a couple of times. I think it is a mistake to have the fees so high.
It's kind of like the street lights. Just trying to piss people off.
Only I think it back fires in the end. Doesn't save money and gets people angry.
I think the fees are fine. The beach has been great this year, the weather has cooperated for the most part and I've enjoyed the lack of crowds. As the saying goes 'ya gotta pay to play!'
dont want to pay? dont go. more room for those who do. This is what the town voted for dont forget. taxes or fees -- we decided fees. we had the choice.
It's too bad the average resident has to be priced out of the enjoyment of Dartmouth's beaches. But I suppose it is better than being priced out of one's home.
Bill's friend is right: why not lower the sticker fee. The Town will probably make as much money, maybe even more. With gas prices so high, more people are probably vacationing close to home, and our local beaches certainly could provide a lot of fun for families with children. I guess $70 in this instance isn't so bad in comparison with gas prices, but $35 would be even better, especially since families probably have school fees to save for, as well.
Why not raise the mooring fees even more than they have been, as I imagine they may already have been raised, along with any other water-related fees? There are a lot of boats up for sale around town, with gas so high. Those that are not for sale are probably in the water in Padanaram, and in use. To me that signifies that the owners have the money to maintain and moor a boat. They should have the additional money to pay for doing so.
If everything financially is so great for someone, possibly that someone has the money to make and keep it great, and a little extra wouldn't be a burden.
I'm just curious what too high a fee would be for those that feel it is so great to have the beach all to themselves to pay? How much would they be willing to pay before they started to change their tune? Also, do these people have children?
I would think that town residents would want to have as many of their fellow residents as possible use the beach. Otherwise when funding time comes around and some are priced out of access, there will not be public support for funding the Park Department. Not to mention basic equity issues. Thoseare the reasons to keep the fee as low as possible. Since raising the fee did not raise the revenue generated. it seems that returning the fee to a lower amount may be prudent at this juncture.
nd mom is fortunate to have a friend who has invited her to go to the beach with her. Maybe people could get together and one person purchase a sticker and then invite as many people to go with them as can fit in their car, just as kids did when they went to the drive-in. The driver of the car would pay the entry fee and everyone would hide in the trunk. Nd mom gives her friend some money to help pay the sticker fee. Two families could split the beach sticker's cost, and more people could go to the beach as a result. Maybe this won't work, though. Would the beach "guards" consider two adults with a carful of kids two families? Is there an increased per-person price, or does the $70 cover a certain number of people only? I'm not knowledgeable how these stickers work. If so, if there is a per-car maximum, I guess it wouldn't.
For crying out loud - $70 bucks for a summer's worth of family entertainment?! What on earth can any family do for that kind of money. 1 night at the movies and you blow thru that between tickets and treats. I suppose we could make a fuss to the theater owners and tell them how poor we are in Dartmouth and they should lower their ticket prices too. Yes I do have children, and pay all the various and sundry fees associated with that - thank you Dartmouth. So the $70 beach sticker is just another fee and my enjoyment of the beaches this year has increased exponentially because they are less crowded, so in my opinion some fees are a good thing.
You want to raise my mooring fees (again I should add) so you can go to the beach cheaper! Get real.
The point to remember is that raising the beach sticker fee DID NOT RAISE REVENUE. If it had increased revenue, then I would understand and support it. They basically broke even on revenue and eliminated lots of beach goers. They also did not break even as a department. I am fortunate in that I get invited to more than one private beach in town throughout the course of the summer but in the best interest of most townspeople, the fees should be lowered again.
Let's see then-my kid goes to HS and I get stuck with a $400 bus bill. That's too high and not enough kids take the bus now and the revenue the fees generated have not met expectations. Lower my fee.
I can choose to go to the beach or not and thus either spend or save the miserable 70 bucks. I do not have that choice with my son's education and how he gets there.
Pay the $70 or stay home.
anonymous the same theory should apply. If the bus fees did not increase revenue, then they should be lowered as well. You just sound bitter.
Bitter? No I said I love the less crowded beaches and think the $70 fee is fine. What gets me is people in town never seem happy unless they get something cheap or better yet, free. Less crowded beaches mean less litter, less maintenance and ultimately a lower cost to operate for the town so I see the $70 fee as a win win situation. It's still the cheapest entertainment around for a family so what's to be bitter about? I've got one more year of bus fees to deal with and I'm done with that too so in the end the bus cost me $800 for 2 years. Not the end of the world but I won't support lowering beach fees at the expense of my mooring fee or without a decrease in bus fees. Fair is fair right?
It's been a great summer and I look forward to more peaceful days on the sand where I can park near the beach w/o having to walk down the service road for 1/2 mile dodging traffic. Sounds great to me!
To Bill from Ellen-Would you consider supporting an education override targeted at text and tech question 1 and MALL (music back in 3rd grade and Kindergarten, art materials and back to old level for K, languages back in 7th grade, and school libraries with SAILs and more resources and a shared elem. librarian professional who floats between Quinn, Potter, DeMello) Please share your thoughts...I think the override total would be around $100on avg.
PS Forgot HS and Middle school art supplies are lacking and need funding.
NO OVERRIDE REQUEST! (Yes, that is intended to be a YELL!)
Are you kidding me? The schools hire the newbie at an insane starting salary/benefits package, which just shows us all, once again, how they manage our money. Then we get another request for an override? No way! Taxpayers are smart enough to realize that funding an override just allows the school department to make more stupid financial decisions without suffering ANY consequences!
Want money for these "only a small override items?" Then force the school committee to move the funds they already have into different line items to fund a more responsible budget!
I think the beach stickers should be a maximum of $100/season with a break for seniors who earn leass than $40k/year-earn more than that and they should pay the full load. But no more than $100/season. It's been nice and peaceful this year and if it's becasue of the fee so be it.
I think the beach stickers should be $400. This will eliminate the ten-cent millionaires so only people of real class and money can go. Once we elimate all but those of us wealthy, classy and good-looking people, we could probably cut the beach staff considerably to save money. Lowering the sticker price would only encourage poor and often smelly people to go to the beach. Beaches should be reserved for the priviledged.
I agree. It's sort of like those smelly people who fish on the bridge. Maybe we could charge a really high fee for that as well and rid ourselves of them. Then our little corner of Dartmouth could truly be a worthy place that would finally prove to the rest of the community that we really are so much better.
Padanaramite, I couldn't agree with you more! I think you have hit on something but we should go much higher. The beach fee should be $10,000. That would keep the riff-raff and the nouveau riche from spoiling our ocean. When we're in town, we can enjoy the beach and the town only need a few sales to fund the whole thing. They could lay off the park staff and not have to sell stickers at all, we can contact them for our passes. The same holds for mooring fees. They should be much, much higher! Why should my crew have to maneuver around the dinghies of the unwashed. Raise the fees! Let's clear out the harbor to make room for the right sort who don't have to worry about fees. Ta-ta.
I like the part about only letting in the good looking people. Maybe they should get a free sticker?
I love you folks that seem to like to rag on Padanaram residents. You might beinterested to know the per capita income of North Dartmouth is higher than that of South Dartmouth residents. When was the last time you looked at Padanaram houses? Aside from the waterfront spots, most homes are simple, relatively modest capes and colonials - most not near the value of the homes recently built all over North Dartmouth. Old prejudices sure die hard around here. Pay the fee or stay home.
No one ever said the people in the village have more money. They just seem to think they are wealthier, more educated, and much more intelligent than the common folk. I seem to recall letters to the editor regarding the ignorant citizens of Dartmouth and how certain residents of Padanaram were going to have to educate these poor folk because they just don't know any better.
You keep forgetting the obvious point. If raising the beach sticker fee did not increase revenue then why not lower the fee? The town still gets the same amount of money while allowing more people to use the beach. Why should that be a problem???
I'm not forgetting anything anonymous. You seem to think you are smarter than everyone your comments to the contrary notwithstanding. I simply do not agree with your point. $70 for a season's use of a beautiful beach is inexpensive no matter how you look at it. I happen to think that use will increase over time even at $70/season and the town will reap the benefits. As it stands now, crowds are lower increasing my own enjoyment of the facility but I'd welcome more people. I also have to think that maintenance and operating costs are lower due to less usage. 1 1/2 months into the first year of increased fees is simply not enough time to judge the success or failure of a new initiative. I don't know where the discussion of Padanaram people fits into any of this but again it goes to show the ignorance and prejudice of many people in this town. There have been zero issues regarding the bridge fishing in recent years which shows that bridge fishing and village living can go hand in hand - but that does'nt seem to fit into your notion and preconceptions.
Gotta go, time for the beach!
Bill, did anyone contact the department to see what the actual revenue increase was? That seems odd to me. I heard they have drastically increased revenue over the last two years by increasing the fee. I assume since your a selectboard member you have your facts straight. I will call the office to check
Hey Bill: I have a relative that works in the Park Board, so I called him to inquire about your comments. Turns out the numbers you have mentioned are not accurate. Seems the department has increased revenue by tens of thousands of dollars by increasing the fee from $35 to $70.
I would suggest you call them to get the straight information, but from the response I received I think they will be calling you. Also, I confirmed my belief about the non-resident sticker as well. Seems the initiative was extremely succesful in generating revenue last year but town meeting put a stop to it for the current beach season.
Outstanding work anonymous!! Were you the blogger that also called the Refuse District to get the actual facts on tonnage disposed of by New Bedford when another blogger insisted the bulk of Dartmouth's trash was being disposed of in New Bedford? The facts did not support that naysayer either. Good job. Funny how the facts don't seem to get in the way of some folks. Keep the fee!
Gee, I remember a SB meeting when the park dept claimed they were not selling enough beach stickers. I also know that the beach sticker fees do not cover the operating costs so my tax dollar is still supporting the beach even with the hefty fees. So taxpayers continue to pay for a public beach but do not have access to it because of the high price.
And please don't use the arguement that operating costs will decrease with less people using the beach. Who among us thinks the park dept.'s budget will be cut because they don't have as much to do with less beachgoers?
anonymous, having taken the time to inquire about the increase in revenue, why didn't you state actual numbers???
Town meeting put a stop to it because Round Hill was bought for Dartmouth residents. The park dept wants to spin off with its own enterprise fund. This would mean that whatever revenue it could create would stay in that dept. Selling high priced beach stickers to out of towners and raising the price of resident stickers would certainly give the park dept. a lot of "fun" money. No wonder it was trying to move in that direction.
Truly inspiring! When confronted with actual facts that dispel the first falsehoods, a new set of conspiracy theories get put forward. Yep the Park Department sure can scheme can't they! Another one of those nefarious groups of government workers (who also happen to be our neighbors and friends in many cases, but no matter) looking to pull the wool over the poor, common, decent hardworking Dartmouth townfolk.
Do any of you actually know who the Park Dept is? Scheming?
Actual facts??? What would those be? I have a relative that works in the park dept.???
I spoke with the Park Director and the confusion seems to be coming from the difference between the town's fiscal year, July 1 to June 30, and how the park department keeps track of their beach sticker sales. In both FY07 (July 1, 2006 to June 30 2007) and FY08 (July 1, 2007 to June 30, 2008) the revenue generated from the sale of beach stickers was about $134K. However in calendar year 2006, the cost of a beach sticker was $35; in calendar year 2007, it was $70, and in calendar year 2008, it is $75.
This is where it can be confusing, during half of FY07 beach stickers cost $35 and in the other half of FY07, they cost $70. Since most stickers are sold in April and May '07, those sales occurred in the $70 half of FY07. These FY07 revenues also included about 80 non-resident stickers which were sold at $150 and generated $12K of the $134K total.
Hi Bill
I think your getting closer. But I know beach stickers were $60 last year not $35, so the increaase was from $60 to $70. also, Im not sure where the $75 came from beacuse stickers are $70 this year. I hope this helps
Just got in from the beach - 90 degrees in the shade it seems! Perfect beach weather.So far been 8 times this season with the kids and we're about 1/2way into the season. So at $70 and 8 trips that works out to less than $9/day at the beach for me and 2 kids. And to think we stillhave the rest of July and allof August to go. At this rate it will cost me a grand total of about $4/trip to the beach or a little over a $1 per person for the summer. Where else can you get priceless memories like we have available to us for a dollar a day! Thank you Dartmouth for keeping our beaches clean and safe.
to last poster, As I said in my original post, only those who know that they will be going to the beach many times throughout the season or those with lots of money will buy these beach stickers. For those of us who want to use the beach only two or three times per year, the numbers work out much differently than your situation.
Well Wally, lets come up with a second tier season ticket - tailored for those that may go only a few times a year. Where to draw the line - 3 trips $50 more than 3 trips a season pay the full frieght. Then we could work on how best to staff the beach and hope all the 3 trip ticket holders and full pass holders don't decide to come on the same day cause our staff will have been reduced and wont be able to handle the crowds.
This gets tedious, pay the $70 or stay home - or go to Horseneck and deal with the parking fees and traffice. There are choices.
The suggestion was made last year when the park dept. was having a hard time selling stickers that maybe they could sell monthly stickers. Say $30 - $35 for one month. That way people could more easily afford them. If you know you will be on vacation during a certain month then you could buy a sticker accordingly. Some of us do have to work for a living and we don't have a lot of time for the beach so buying a sticker for the whole season is not worth it. However I bet a lot of monthly stickers would be sold.
Last anonymous, There certainly are choices. So far, I have been to the beach twice this year(I have to work, even in the summer). I have gone to Lloyd State Park once for seven dollars. It was not too crowded either. Although Round Hill is nicer for swimming, you can actually fish, shellfish, kayak and have barbecues at Demarest Lloyd. My second trip was to Barney's Joy with friends. Beautiful place but it's private. I'm fortunate to be invited there on occasion. You are fortunate to have enough time in the summer to use Round Hill 16-20 times per year. What bothers me is your callousness towards others who are not as fortunate as you and me. I think charging 3 1/2 times what the state beaches charge for a day pass may be excessive and exclusive. People always talk about "community" but it seems they are only talking about their own clique. If you want broad support for municipal services, it is best to include and accept everyone as part of the community.
Sssshh, don't tell anyone Wally, but I live in North Dartmouth and actually drive across town to go to the Round hill Beach becasue I prefer it to some of the others. Horseneck's too rough for the younger kids and while I like Demerset Llyod too, I find I like RH better. I am not part of any 'clique' either as I usually don't know anyone at RH but manage to have a good time just the same. Work part time so I do have some spare time to spend with the kids during the summer and they all love RH too. Salvadore's ice cream may have something to do with that. As far as being callous, nonsense. I still maintain a beach pass for $70/season is the cheapest entertainment for a family there is.
Hey I work too- even in the summer believe it or not! Been to Round Hill 5 times so far this season. Hope to get there another few times before the season ends so it may end up costing me $8-9 per trip this year. Not too bad considering the cost of everything else, and its generally pretty well maintained too, so if I was asked I'd say I don't think the current fee is too bad for what you get.
Obviously you don't get it so I'll post it a third time. The seventy dollar fee isn't bad if you can find the time to go often. For those who can't make a habit out of going to the beach, the fee is high. The day pass is particularly high. For those who are all for the town providing this, that and the other thing, you need to realize the fact that the more people you include in things like the beach, the more support you will have. When beach stickers were low, closing it due to fiscal problems was more of a concern to people in general. Now that half of the beachgoers don't go anymore, they couldn't care less about that threat.
Wally, try not to be so condescending with people that do not agree with you. A one day pass is a convenience to the individual that purchases it. I can understand that the town would have difficulty managing the resource if there was a cheap day pass that was a 'deal' in your book. Get a bunch of rainy days or a poor weather season and no one buys the bargain day passes yet the beach still must be staffed and maintained. A losing proposition. A commitment to a reasonably priced season pass, which I believe $70 to be, allows the town to predict some reliable income stream.
In recent years the town has spoken loudly and clearly that they do not wish to provide services they do not use and that fees are the appropriate avenue to pursue. So here we are with $70 season passes. I get to use the beach as often as I want and now get to do so without tremendous crowds to deal with. I am willing to pay $70 for that use and likely would pay some more before I feel it is not worth it. For those that do not feel the same way perhaps an over ride for the parks department is the way to go to spread the cost of the beach among the entire town. I'm pretty sure such an override would fail -I know I would be opposed to it - but maybe you feel strongly enough about it to pursue one. Until then I plan to buy the sticker again next year and enjoy the rest of this season.
So if we can agree that $70 is not bad for those who use the beach often, can we agree that $25 for a day pass is high? Or will you come out and just say that you prefer policies that exclude people who don't have the time to go several times per year from the beach? Maybe you will have to work full time some day and your opinion will change. I'm not looking for a "deal" as you put it but just a reasonable day pass rate. I believe this would increase revenue. In my case, a ten dollar day pass would likely increase town revenue by $20 because I may go twice per year. I don't mind beach fees but feel they should be as all-inclusive as possible. As we've discussed, there are options and most people are just not going to pay that day pass rate. The State Beaches will get that revenue. At least we agree that we won't support an override for the Park Dept.
Wouldn't a good beach manager send most of the staff home on rainy days?
lifeguard - perhaps some would get sent home but you still need to have people ready to work, on staff and paid. Just like any business, continuity is important, day passes do not provide the steady income stream that a season pass does and thus I understand why they carry a premium price tag. Some folks here want it both ways. Low taxes that do not cover what some feel are non-essential services-such as a town beach-low user fees and further, user fees that are tailored specifically to their own wants, needs and desires. I've made the point that $70 for a season's use of a beautiful beach is not excessive and get labled as callous, have too much money, can't possibly have kids, and so on. I use the beach quite a bit so the fee is worth it for what I get in return. Some, like Wally, say they only visit 3 times a season and feel the price for admittance is too high for the use they would get out of it and thus feel there should be a fee structure that better accomodates them. There are ways to try and make that happen if it's that important to them. Telling me I don't get his point is not one of them however.
Anonymous, Personal barbs aside, it looks like we are agreeing on some things. We agree $70 is O.K. for people who use the beach often. Please tell me how you of ultimate wisdom would go about making changes to the day pass fee structure. I really do feel that the town could increase its revenue by doing so and have the added benefit of not losing support for the "community" from about 600 families. Can you guess why I chose the number 600?
Personal barbs aside and then a personal barb? My oh my.
If I were 'ruler for a day' in Dartmouth and could change the day pass fee structure I would support a fee of $15/day for residents and $25/day for non-residents. That would allow for up to 5 visits per season before it makes sense to ante up for a season pass. I am not a fan of the 'cheap' day passes because I do believe it makes it much more difficult to predict revenue for the season. What I find interesting in all of this too is that people are very willing to complain about these things after the fact. I sat through the meetings where this very item was discussed at some length and save for some questions about why Round Hill was treated differently than other beaches in town there were no questions on fees and no objections when the structure was announced. Now, after the fact it's too late to change. Perhaps if people feel strongly enuogh about this they will voice their concerns and have the town consider changes.
Ok, when has the town listened to anything we've said? Or, the school committee, either?
Seems like all they do is "consider" this and "consider" that.
This isn't about $70 for a beach sticker. This is about how this town is being run. Threats followed by punishment. If you don't pass an override you will pay for trash. If you don't pass an override we will turn off the street lights. If you don't pass an override we will close 2 schools. On and on. There is no thought involved regarding the decisions made other than how we can make our citizens suffer so they will give us more money. There have been several good suggestions made regarding beach stickers which would allow more of the community to enjoy this resource and more than likely bring in additional revenue but they go unheard because they don't fit in with the plan.
Well I guess instead of participating in government and actually working for change where you think change is needed its much easier to complain on a blog and whine about conspiracies, threats and punishments.....Stuff costs money, costs increase someone has to pay or lose the service. It is about the $70 season pass after all is'nt it. You don't like the idea of paying for something you think you are entitled too. It does'nt work that way. It's not about threats and punishment more like truth or consequences. Complain on!
Anonymous, I'm not complaining and I understand that the fees have been set for this summer. After our contentious little debate, wouldn't you agree that we both feel $70 is o.k. for a season pass. We also both feel that the day pass is high. I think it should be ten and you fifteen. Hopefully some people who could make some changes to the fee structure are paying attention. Heck, if you want to compromise and ask for a $12.50 day pass rate for NEXT year, I'll go to a park board meeting with you and we can suggest it together. I really feel it would be win-win. More citizens enjoying the beach, more revenue and a more inclusive "community".
$12.50 it is then. Signe me up for a park board meeting.
As an elected Park Commissioner for the past 15 years I have had the privilege of working with many dedicated employees as well as elected and appointed officials in our Town of Dartmouth. I am a lifelong resident and it saddens me, as it does many, to see it in such a difficult fiscal crisis. However, it troubles me to read erroneous, inaccurate and untrue information from persons who should have the wherewithal and knowledge to seek the correct answers before disseminating information to the public via a blog that Dartmouth residents will assume is accurate. This response is to clarify the misinformation being put forth on an elected official's blog regarding the revenues and handling of the beaches, parks and sticker sales relative to the budget. The revenue numbers, sticker prices and years associated with those prices are not accurate. It is absolutely unfair to the taxpayers and town residents to post false information. If a friend brought something to an elected officials attention, then prior to posting it, the elected official has a responsibility to check its accuracy. It was only after disseminating this incorrect information to the public that information was sought from department heads and out town’s fiscal director.
To post that the Dartmouth Park Department or its elected members are in some way acting fiscally irresponsible is not true. Beach sticker sales this year at $70.00 are not equal to what they were when sticker prices were $35.00.
The Park Department has raised $134,000 by increasing beach sticker prices from $35 to $70. We have sold 1900 stickers this year. In some of our best years at $35 we sold 2300-2500. We would have to sell 3800 stickers this year at $35 to account for the same revenue and we would clearly not have adequate parking for that amount of patrons.
Two years ago, in 2006, was the last year that beach stickers were sold for $35. Our revenue that year was $88,367. In 2007, the Town in addressing the operating budget fiscal crisis through its Administrator and Finance Director, instructed the Park Board to raise revenue via fees in order to offset a majority of the department’s operating budget. We were instructed that this would be the only way to keep services, particularly Round Hill Beach, operable.
Knowing what a prized possession the Town has in Round Hill the Park's Director, at the direction of the Park Board, began to research what other similar communities had done to raise revenue. With the information gathered and in response to the directive given to them from town administrators, the Park Board raised fees to $60 and implemented the non-resident sticker option at $150. The non-resident sticker was capped so as to not overburden the beach but at the same time to keep the resident sticker price as low as possible. The total revenue in 2007 was $134,413. of which $12,000. (nearly 10%) was generated from non resident stickers. In the Fall of 2007, Town Meeting voted to stop the sale of the successful non-resident sticker program so Round Hill could remain a "residents only" beach. As a result the Park Board was required to adjust the cost of resident stickers to absorb the revenue loss.
In 2008 the beach sticker cost was raised to $70. As planned, our 2008 revenue remained consistent at $134,713. At no time did we raise a fee without generating additional revenue for the town. In fact the increase from $35 to $70 has generated over $46,000 in increased revenue. As a small department, the Park Board had a yearly operating cost last year of $192,680. The additional revenue generated by these increases alone is nearly a quarter of our total operating expense. The Park Department currently generates 70% of its operating budget from fees. It is my hope that this explanation clarifies and corrects the misconceptions regarding park and beach fees and revenues. I would urge anyone with questions regarding this matter to contact our office
for accurate information prior to making inaccurate and misleading statements.
In closing, please know that I am not a proponent of increasing fees but understand why we had to do it. The increase in resident sticker sales to $70.00 was a difficult decision for me and our board to make. We have done everything possible to keep our parks and beaches operable, safe and well staffed for our residents. I, as an elected member to the Park Board, will continue to working in a fiscally responsible way on behalf of our town and its residents.
Park Board Member, Thanks for the numbers. It doesn't seem that people here have a problem with the season pass fee and your info confirms that it has increased revenue. Could you give us a similar rundown of the day pass numbers?
As I re-read your post, I have some more questions. FY 07 and 08 park revenues were about the same. Fiscal years start in july. Weren't most of the passes bought for FY07 still under the $35 rate? The reason I generalized and said that revenues remained about the same under the new fee structure was because I heard our finance director say so. This is a blog after all and while most people try to keep info accurate, sometimes there is confusion. If most of the 07 stickers were bought for $35 and revenues didn't increase..... Please clarify.
Walter, good question, I happen to know that the majority of beach stickers for FY 2007 were $60 not $35. The majority of $35 beach stickers were sold in Fiscal 2006. Fiscal 2006 was already 3 beach seasons ago.
Elected Park Commissioner for 15 years...In my opinion, that's way too long for any town official to be in office. That's when elected officials forget that they don't own the beach and they are accountable to town residents. It would serve the town better if terms were not forever...
By the sound of your post, you take things way too personal...time to go.
All town residents are dedicated...that is not an issue here, but it seems like after 15 years, arrogance sets in. I don't think Dartmouth residents think that EVERY POST on a blog is accurate information, it is only another opinion.
In response to "Just My Opinion Folks" --
What's the maximum length of service that you recommend for town officials? It is not the length of service, but rather the quality of an individual's service that is important. In this case, a long-time elected Park Commissioner provided a thorough answer to the questions, speculations, and inaccurate statements proffered in this blog, and you want to see this individual removed from his/her position. Regardless of how well a town official may answer questions and address concerns, you and others (especially CFRG) just can't be satisfied. In my opinion, the arrogance is coming from your side. And, no, I am not a town employee, appointee, or official -- just a life-long townie.
Yes, I'm afraid that when individuals stay in certain positions for many years, they tend to get territorial. It's THEIR turf.
The beach is for the residents and it is the town's responsibility to see that as many residents as possible have access, not just the wealthly who can afford $70. Maybe you don't think it's a lot of money, but for a senior it is.
FYI seniors pay $50 not $70 for stickers
Yea, I probably qualify!! Anybody know what age "senior" is? Maybe it's still worth it to get a sticker. Season ends Labor Day. In all my years in Dartmouth, even growing up here, I've never been to any local beaches. (I was "privileged"; my aunt and uncle had a cottage on West Island, quite the thing to have for a middle-class family back then.) In high school my just-turned-senior class had a class outing at Horseneck, but it was so cloudy, drizzly, and cold, not many kids went. Too bad; I had the family car that day.
Just a little reminiscing for you "youngsters."
Just me again, the hopefully-qualifying senior. I still say, pack the car with senior friends or a family(ies)and head on down to the beach. I called to confirm, my senior quirk, checking the details: as long as the car has a sticker, it doesn't matter how many people in the car, even if it's recognizable that there is more than one family in the car. One car, one sticker, as many people as can be stuffed in the car. With the SUV's today, several people or a family or two extra could easily be transported, complete with towels, toys, and food for hungry little ones. Like nd mom who gives her friend who takes her to the beach money to help pay for the sticker, those going in the stickered car could chip in for gas, or even for the sticker itself. If I do buy one, I plan on inviting some friends or maybe a neighborhood family who would not get a chance to go otherwise, to go with me. Sounds like a plan to me.
This is a record, 68 comments. Guess it is an easier, fun subject. Lower the beach passes to $40 or $50 max. The beach isn't open that late and only for a few months. $70 is too expensive. I'm not from here so I don't get this Padanaram hatred. Padanaram is OK but not amazing...Why all the fighting and jealousy? Go easy on Padanaram people. they get charged more to have their houses painted I suppose. It isn't worth the stress and anger. Love all fellow neighbors and Dartmouth kin like you love yourself. Decency. Friendship. The benefit of the doubt.
Spoken like a true hippie! Peace, love, and I forget the third, if there is one. I'm having a senior moment. (I just caught parts of a PBS program on hippies in San Francisco in the '60's. Couldn't resist the comment. No offense, I hope?)
Peace, love, and understanding.
Thanks, frankg.
Regarding how long elected officials should serve, I also think that 15 years is too long for a town elected official. I supported Miller (SB) in the past, but looking back, I would not do it again. Three terms tops (9yrs). After that, I question just how much power and control they have and how it could be a problem. We should have something in the by-laws about that.
To Anonymous who "forgot" about the high school and middle school art supplies "that are lacking and need funding": how much MORE do you want? Does anyone remember how the override of 2007 suddenly blossomed into not only one overcrowded school (Quinn) but two overcrowded schools (Middle School) as well? Like a train gathering speed, it got a life of its own. Then it became how bad the lockers were, and then, I DO remember mention of how bad the bathrooms were. I will agree that Anonymous is addressing school learning materials, true, but overriders would throw in the kitchen sink. They went one better, though. They threw in the bathrooms.
I too am a life-long resident (although not as long to qualify for the senior discounted beach sticker..yet) I agree $70 is high, however I have had to make tough decisions at home. trash fee, higher taxes, higher fuel, higher food costs all were a factor. I considered the beach a luxury, and that was cut. Now to my amazement some are discussing another 2 1/2 override. Are you out of your mind? How much more are the taxpayer going to get pinched. One more tax increase and I'll have to cut some of my medications out. what choice do I have? heat, food or meds? which one should I cut back on?
Just read through this whole blog and I must say I'm not sure I've ever heard of so many cheap, small minded people in my entire life! Elected official throws out BAD information without checking facts, people pile on town volunteers and employees, don't want to pay a paltry seasonal fee for a beautiful resource, don't want to pay taxes to support that resource either, ask how many people they can cram into one vehicle to get into the beach (sounds like HS kids going to a drive in!)park board VOLUNTEER adds factual information to clarify the discussion and gets told (s)he has been volunteering on the board for too long and should get off, an entire portion of the community gets labeled because of where they choose to live. What have I missed? Is everyone in Dartmouth destitute, or are they simply looking for any reason to complain about something? Here's a thought, drive over to your local Benny's (better yet ask a friend to drive you or take the bus - it's cheaper)pick up one of those platic pools and set it up in the front yard. For less than $20 you can enjoy the rest of the season at your own beach. If you wait until after labor day they usually have the pools marked down too!
To Anon at 4:50: What have you missed, well, for one thing it was an ELECTED PARK COMMISSIONER (FOR 15 YRS) not a volunteer who accused another of putting false info. on the blog. Mr Trimble certainly hit a sore spot when he simply wrote about a friend telling him his feelings about the beach. He never accused anyone in the Park Dept. of acting irresponsibly. He was asking the public HOW THEY FELT about beach stickers. At one point he did call the Park Dept. and posted that in the comments.With a possible typo (of $75 instead of $70), he noted $70 on his original post. To think that the public would think that the comments (or opinions) that are posted on any blog are facts is crazy. People post their own thoughts about the issue. I think this blog is a great way to get people thinking about town issues. The original post was about a STORY told to Mr. Trimble by a FRIEND.
Maybe some are super sensitive, but it is a good thing, in my opinion, that people talk about town issues and if they are important enough, they will seek the information they need to make the right decision. That should happen on every level of politics.
Ohh I stand corrected - an ELECTED park commissioner. That makes all the difference in the world! Still volunteers his/her time and when (s)he posts actual FACTS gets slammmed. Such a sensitive town. Cheap and mean spirited but sensitive. How endearing.
Can't we meet in the middle $35 - $70?? Seems like they shot up too high!
As far as the Park Com.- you sound more angry with the people posting their comments, not Mr. Trimble's original post. He was only talking with a friend. I know it's hot outside, maybe you should CHILL.
Outstanding blog, Bill. People should take an interest in our town departments and how they operate and give services to town residents. This blog keeps everybody on their toes!
For too many years, people slept through meetings and ignored what went on in town govt. I think this blog is a great way to get people interested. And, just to note, when you post facts they are right on! Thanks.
umm anonymous 8:18 - Bill's 'fact' that increasing fees did not generate additional revenue was not 'right on' as you stated. In fact it was 'way off'. Running a blog as an elected official comes with some responsibility to research things before posting them as 'fact'.
I started out by relating what I had been told and questioning why the cost of beach stickers was not reduced. This is an interactive blog without any restriction on who can comment. I don't think that my original post in any way impugned the Park department. I asked a question, stated my view and asked for comment. Anyone can then comment and can set me straight if I have made an error. That's how this works. In a letter in today's S-T, a member of the Park Board sets out the facts and as it turns out, revenue was increased, but as was originally stated, fewer people are using the public beach. The fees do not completely cover the cost of running the town beaches, so some taxpayers are supporting the park department without receiving any benefit. I am think that if we can find a way to allow more people to enjoy the town beaches, that is a good thing. Especially since the taxpayer is footing at least some of the bill. Reading through the comments here, the consensus opinion is that the $70 fee is OK but the day pass fee is too high and discourages occasional users. So i wouild propose the day pass fee be lowered while retaining the annual fee the same. It may result in increased revenue from day passes. What do you think?
Whatever Mr Trimble.
dont pay - dont go. I dont see reduced rates on school fees anytime soon
SEVENTY DOLLARS EQUALS SEVENTY SINGLE DOLLAR BILLS
It's a shame...there are places in this country where the shoreline belongs to the residents. In Florida, every person must have access to the water. In MA the wealthy own most of our shore property. Too bad our town beaches are going the same way.
Has the Park Board ever tried to sell stickers for weekdays or weekends separately? I know people who love the weekdays(Moms & kids) and would never go on a weekend.
"Senior" is age 62, if anyone is interested, and the reduced cost for the sticker is $50.00, as someone previously mentioned.
I like that anonymous 2:10 - 70 dollars = 70 single dollar bills - and 70 more reasons for people in this town to complain about something!
"I started out by relating what a friend of mine told me..." Bill Trimble.
Not quite true Mr. Trimble, you also stated that revenues had not increased and let that bit of information get disseminated without benefit of researching the actual facts. I feel you're responsibile for at least finding out if things are true before you post them on a public forum. Of course it's your perogative to blog whatever you wish, I simply hoped for some intellectual honesty and maybe a little academic rigor. But hey, it's your thing, blog away!
Beach stickers have increased from $35 to $70 in three years. I think that is extreme.
Again, it is a way to get people angry. So, the only recourse we have is at the polls. We need new people running the parks with more creative ideas about how to have beach access for more residents.
I think the Park Board has in general been creative(Summer concert series, the Bucket)and done a fine job. This does not mean that the public shouldn't provide their input or that things cannot be improved. Our Park Board member seems a little sensitive here but I hope she comes back with the day pass numbers I asked her for (if a blog is important enough to write the editor, it should be important enough to answer that question). It seems the productive dialogue that Bill's blog provides may have revealed that day passes for those who don't use the beach often could be lowered and have the benefit of increasing revenue. There also seems to be some interest in sunset walks on the beach. Small changes indeed, but Rome wasn't built in a day either.
whoaa Wally! Sunset walks on the beach - for free!? I work at sunset and only can get to the beach during my lunch hour which due to my occupation has to be between 11:00 and 2:00. If there are to be free sunset walks I want a free lunch time walk pass. And, well, truth be told, my wife can't take the noon day sun and finds the mosquitos to be a real problem at sunset so it's really only fair to allow her to walk the beach at sunrise when the sun is not so high as to cause her skin irritation and the mosquitos have not awoken yet. Seems to me a creative parks department could come up with a solution to solve these issues. Oh and by the way we're both seniors so can't possibly be expected to pay the same price that non-seniors pay that is assuming they won't let us in for free. That just would not be fair. Oh and could we bring the grandkids on one of our walks? It would have to be after work of course unless I can convince the wife to bring them early when she is doing her sunrise walk. Probably can't do it then - the little sleeps till at least 8!Bless her heart that kid can sleep! Hopefully someone at the parks department or perhaps Mr. Trimble can look into this for me. Thank you oh so much.
I think you're all over tired. Good night.
Wally didn't say free. Personally I would be willing to pay for a beach pass that let me take sunset walks. Maybe passes that are only good when the beach is unstaffed could be sold for those who don't require as much service. This may produce additional revenue. Of course these should be less costly because the cost of paying a bunch of kids to look after my safety would not apply. Only in Dartmouth would they kick people off the beach because the owners, (oops) I mean the Park Board wants everyone off at 4pm or 7pm depending on the season.
anonymous 10:24 - keeping the beaches open longer might be an option if people are wiling to pay for it. I dont think Round Hill is closed when it is only becasue of safety issues (therefore requiring 'a bunch of kids' as you so eloquently put it to look out for your safety). Given its remote location I believe the decision was made long ago to close it at certain hours to help prevent problems that had been cropping up there with people lingering at all hours of the night casuing problems for the rest of us who wanted to enjoy the facility the next day. This was long before our current budget issues became an issue.
Its just a shame that such a beautiful resource is the source of so much animosity. Perhaps we should get some piping plovers to nest there each season and the whole question of residents usage of the beach will be moot.
The plovers sound like a good idea! (I'm not kidding.) That would encourage wildlife protection, keep them from becoming extinct, or at least keep them from leaving this area, and who out there would have the gall and selfishness to criticize the nesting of these innocent creatures? Or, if not plovers, some other species or wildlife (was it the plovers who were threatened at Mishaum Point when that McMansion was built on their nesting grounds?) Let's give back to the planet we live on. We are not the only form of life on it, lest we forget.
On another note, has the Town ever just charged individually for every car that went to Round Hill or one of the Town beaches, and not required a beach sticker? Maybe if cars were charged each time they used the beaches (just like the drive-ins, if you remember them; you paid each time you went and there was no "season pass.") Possibly the Town would make more money that way? Then residents could decide day-by-day if they wanted to go to the beach, and not have to feel pressured to do so because they have shelled out (no pun intended) $70.00 for a sticker and now darn well better use it. If it were $10.00 per car per use, maybe more people would be able to use the beach. Some people might only go 6 or 7 times per season, so their "fee" would be right up to the current sticker fee and others would go over it, but that would be their choice. At least no one would be left out. Maybe someone would like to go more than once during the season, but could only afford one or two trips, certainly not a $70 sticker's worth of trips. So at least these people could afford the beach on their budget. Could help a lot of people out, especially the seniors.
Also, possibly more expensive, but still doable: what about charging per person, a flat fee, to avoid checking ages? That would avoid the aggravation of season/one-day passes and the debate on how much to charge and what is too expensive a cost. Of course, some may feel even those prices are too high, but they would have a greater opportunity to use the beaches.
I guess the Park Board member doesn't want to answer the question about running the numbers on day passes.
To anonymous 9:11 a.m.
Excellent idea! It would make it more affordable for most and those who have the luxery of being able to go to the beach often can pay to use it. The arguement is that it is such a great resource and worth every penny so people should be willing to pay each time they go. Sounds fair to me.
yes! pay as you go. a variation on the pay as you throw scam err... I mean scheme.
Let's carry it to the next logical step - pay for the police, fire, town government, schools, library, vets, c.o.a., etc as you use them. I don't use most of those services so my taxes shuold be reduced accordingly.
Just figure out a way to keep those services at the ready for when I do decide to use them.
Maybe we should form a committee to study beach use in Dartmouth and new ways to increase use and still afford to run the beach/parks. Sounds like a good idea to me. We should have people from all over town, elderly, parents, singles, etc. New ideas...
how about charging a fee to create all these committee's ? that way anybody who wants be involved cn pay more
Like I said on the other thread related to this - there are only a handful of people that are willing to do any serious lifting in this town and you see their names on many already formed committees. Need people to complain on a blog - no prblem - need some of those same people to work hard at something and all you hear are the footsteps running for the door.
or computers shutting down
How do you know that some of the people here are not already on committees? I've seen posts of people who do a lot of volunteer work on committees.
I will admit that there is a lot of complaining here, but there are a lot of ideas and comments that are good for the town.
People will always complain about government. I hope some of it will stimulate ideas. It's a good thing.
Hey, I applied for Fincom but got denied.
betcha did'nt get so much as a phone call either - right?
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