Mr. Jones has a website here laying out his positions on school issues.
Mr. Jones and I disagree on some school issues but I think he has a sincere interest in improving Dartmouth's education as does his opponent, Mr. John Nunes. Mainly our disagreements center on the whole child concept of education and his contention that Required Net School Spending (RNSS) is some sort of austerity budget.
According to the Massachusetts Department of Elementary and Secondary Education (DESE, formerly the Department of Education) website ...
... on the foundation budget from which RNSS is calculated, In Massachusetts, the definition of an adequate spending level for a school district is called its "foundation budget." It is a statistical measure that was developed by a group of superintendents and an economist in the early 1990's. They developed a "model school budget" which quantified "for the average school district what constitutes an adequate-but not excessive-level of funding."
I think it is important to note that the RNSS level is for an adequate level of funding. You can get an idea of how that funding is determined at this webpage and here.
Saturday, February 7, 2009
Greg Jones for School Committee
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
46 comments:
Thanks Bill....I think!
Greg Jones
Hi Bill, I agree with you that the money should go to the teachers and the classroom curriculum. There is too much waste in other areas. All of this attention (and $$) on MCAS, but it isn't working.
I think we need to return to the priority of children and teachers.Let the teachers do their job. They should be observed and evaluated, but I think most teachers have a tough job and I don't think they get paid enough.
Unfortunatly the MCAS is the benchmark used for rating the schools. To try succeed with MCAS means teaching to the test excluding a large portion of whats not covered on the tests.Until the MCAS are done away with the schools have to deal with it. To Anon 2:15 where are the other areas of waste you speak of . from looking at the budget on the schools website about 80% of the budget is salary and 20% is fixed costs. very little if any is wasted. Salaries are equivelent to the state average. Slightly higher than surrounding towns but we dont want our teachers going to the surrounding towns do we?
MCAS is a state program, the sc has little influence in that area.
The waste is in salaries, mostly administration. Although the teachers salaries are in line we don't need to pay them more. Where do you think they are going to go? New Bedford? Fairhaven? Boston area? Who is hiring? Dartmouth employees have it pretty good. I don't think they will be going anywhere even without a raise. By the way, who is getting a raise these days? I know plenty who are in the unemployment lines.
On the average, the salaries in the Dartmouth Public Schools are below state average and below most of the area communities, this includes the administration. Plus, the Dartmouth schools are doing with less administrators than most of the surrounding communities and those Dartmouth is generally compared with.
If any money is to be saved it would appear it is in the 20% of fixed costs. To see whether these cost are actually fixed or there might be room for improvement I would suggest the school Business Manager attend the Office of the Inspector General's Massachusetts Certified Public Purchasing Official (MCPPO) program. This is 2to 3 day program in Boston that teaches best practices and enhances the capacity of public purchasing officials to operate more effectively. Most municipalities Dartmouth size have a MCPPO certified procurement professional in either the town or school department. However Dartmouth does not. I would also suggest an audit of the School Department by the Inspector Generals Office for no other reason then to see whether we are as efficient as we believe. I say this with all due respect to the School Department, but a new pair of eyes looking at their books might have some good suggestions.
Bill what is your position on Charter Schools?
I am in favor of charter schools. Massachusetts has two types, Horace Mann charters and Commonwealth charters.
Horace Mann charter schools are operated and managed by a board of trustees that is independent of the local school committee and is subject to the collective bargaining agreements of the district. Funding for these schools comes directly from the local school district.
The Commonwealth charter schools are operated and managed by a board of trustees that is independent of the local school committee AND of the local district's collective bargaining agreements.
The vacant elementary school buildings in town would be prime locations for starting a charter school, don't you think?
If salaries are in line then maybe public salaries in general are too high. Why is it schools like Friends Academy pay their teachers much less? Are private schools below average? Why do those with money send their children there if they will only get a sub-standard education? It seems to me both charter and private schools are giving a better quality education while paying much lower salaries.
This argument always goes to the same place. Let's pay them less. Private schools do not have to put up with 1/100th the nonsense public schools do. 12-13 kids a class sure is nice. Kid misbehaves he's out. Learning disabilities or SPED needs? Don't bother applying MCAS? Don't need them. Get out your checkbook and there's your answer.
Charters are one answer, but they solve a small part of the problem while creating another and there results are decidedly mixed across the country. Want a charter school? Start one up - nothing stopping you.
I am not going to debate whether or not our educators are over or under paid. What I believe at this point though, is that there should be a pay freeze for at least one year so that any available money can be used for the student needs. Some of these are listed on Greg Jones' web site. Textbooks, technology, a grade school librarian are a few examples.
This year there is only 215,000 available for increases in that 20% There will be no librarian,no textbooks or technology this year. There great to say you want but when your at MNSS and your apprpriation wont cover the increase in the cost of paper never mind anything else I dont care whose running the show your not getting anything extra. And Bill,"Funding for these schools comes directly from the local school district" we dont have the money to do anything with these schools how on earth can we open a charter school free?
Bill do you have any experience with Charter Schools? Also why do you suppose the Charter Schools do better education wise? I can't seem to find the answer.
To Anonymous 8:35. I bet they will find money for raises won't they? The kids don't have the essentials but hey, we're worth more money. Whenever an override is discussed the argument is that it is only a few extra dollars a week. Remember the cost of a cup of coffee? Well why is it the schools are not willing to take a pay freeze? I mean we're only talking about a few extra dollars a week and it is for the children?
to anon 8:01 no they wont because there is no money for raises or anything else this year yet some select board members think that is a acceptable situation. Dont need new anything and now they dont even need crossing guards. With a 215,000 appropriation how in hell are they supposed to absorb the guards salaries with the price of almost everything going up. that 215,000 is supposed to cover the increased costs from year to year well it doesnt , not this year. Everybody screaming about waste yet there's no examples. they want new this and new that and more computers and more programs. well programs cost money which our little town gives to the schools with an eyedropper lately yet feel free to bitch when the system fails to work at peak levels. Minimum net school spending means you get the basics thats it. you want gifted programs, fund it you want more computers fund it. you want higher mcas scores ,they need new math books, fund it. Stop trying to make the school dept pull a rabbit out of its hat and fund these things when the hat is empty. There is NO EXTRA money for anything extra above minimum net school spending. People scream about teachers raises. Oh yeah I'll get rich on 2 or 3% increase a year and nothing this year. You would think the teachers are getting 10% a year with all the bitching going on. 2-3 % a year , no social security to depend on, fully self funded pensions yet people feel free to bitch about that one too yet noone can complain about someone cashing in their 401k cause its their money, well the 457 IS the teachers money. the town doesnt chip in, the school dept doesnt chip in, its the teachers salary 11% right off the top mandatory. Are you saving 11% of your pay. let me know so I can bitch at you when you go to retire about ripping off the taxpayer
Wrong! The pension fund is not self funded. As a matter of fact the town's liability is quite high. You see the fund has to be fully funded so guess what happens when the stock market crashes? The fund loses money and the taxpayers are liable for the difference.
There is waste with the benefits we are giving. Why is it no other community has ever heard of vacation buyouts? Because they don't give them. Dartmouth does. We are talking about thousands of dollars.
With all due respect to the individual who said “Everybody screaming about waste yet there's no examples”. There are no examples because no one outside of the School Department has looked at the school department budget with a discerning eye. It would be a simple matter to have the state examine our town’s school budget and how we bid out contracts for all goods and services just like they did with the town finances. Why are people against this? My wife and I have six kids and are willing to look any and every where for more funds. If the state finds we are as efficient as we think great! However if the state suggests ways to improve that is great also. The only draw back I see is those who said there is no more money anywhere would have to admit they were wrong. What is so bad about being wrong if we find funds we did not know existed?
John, I couldn't agree more. The only risk is to those who do not benefit from a little scrutiny. I would think anyone with children in the system would welcome an objective overview. Part of the problem seems to be the authority the schools have been given. The town has no say in anything to do with the schools. I understand the underlying reasons but I also see the potential for abuse. Handing over money with no oversight is never a good thing.
The reason the town pension liability is so high is because the teachers fund is self funded while the town employees is not. A poplular misconception is vacation buyouts. Which would you rather have a payout of 100 days vacation or a teacher use her 100 days of vacation? you say use the vacation well your wrong! when a teacher uses vacation a sustitute is brought in to perform her work so in addition to paying the teacher you are also paying the substitute so your paying double for that days work.
Why would any municipality be paying 100 days vacation??? Use it or lose it. I would rather pay for that year instead of accumulating days to be paid at a much higher rate in the future. The argument about paying substitutes does not work for administrators. Why is it no other community has vacation buyouts? Because it doesn't make sense and it is too costly. Why are we giving so much vacation time to people who only work 180 days a year? I was not referring to the liability for the town side but for the teachers'. We owe for the teachers' fund as well. The misconception is that it is self funded.
No one pays a nickel into the teachers fund but the teachers-do your homework.
From the Massachusetts Teachers' Retirement System website
Your MTRS retirement benefits are provided as a contractual obligation of the Commonwealth, and, as such, are guaranteed by the Commonwealth.
The funding for your MTRS benefits comes from three sources:
1. Employee contributions: your retirement contributions to the MTRS during your membership, which are invested in the Pension Reserves Investment Trust (PRIT) Fund;
2. Investment earnings: the earnings on the PRIT Fund; and,
3. Employer contributions: the Commonwealth makes an annual appropriation from tax revenues for the payment of public employee retirement benefits. For the purposes of retirement benefits, the Commonwealth is the “employer” for public teachers. Local school district employers do not contribute toward their teachers’ retirement benefits.
I did my homework
Thanks Bill.
exactly the money you and I pay in property taxes to the town of Dartmouth does not go into the teachers retirement system."Local school district employers do not contribute toward their teachers’ retirement benefits." we do not directly pay into the fund. I believe we do for town employees however.
I am not a millionaire, but the Dartmouth teachers have been incredible to our children. In my personal opinion they are vastly under compensated. I will always do anything I can to support them monetarily.
I don't know about you but I pay state taxes. The pension fund is paid through the state therefore I pay one way or another. It is not self funded as you claim. That is misinformation and misleading.
John, no one is saying teachers are overpaid. The argument was the pension fund and dispelling the notion that it is self- funded. Misinformation being put out by someone who does not have the facts is never a good thing.
but wait I pay social security taxes. If you retire before me Im paying for your retirement. thats not fair. Thats not self funded either but nobody complains about that.
"Misinformation being put out by someone who does not have the facts is never a good thing." isnt that sop for the cfrg?
Big difference between social security benefits and public pension benefits. You don't collect 80% of your high three years for the rest of your life on social security.
Please be specific. What information has the CFRG put out that is inaccurate?
'we are the good guys'
from the cfrg web site
Once again, what is inaccurate or misleading from the CFRG?
if cfrg are the 'good guys' what does that make everyone else?
What website???
anonymous 12:28. Is that the best you've got?
no you dont but I dont pay 11% of my salary into social security either.
Self employeed people do and the rest pay a little over 7%. Do you really think that 11% adds up to 80% for the rest of your life? And the taxpayers are still liable for a portion of the funds.
To anon 12:40 - CFRG used to have a web site, not sure if they do any longer.
These arguments are tiresome. Eventually, between federal, state & local taxes the middle class will be wiped out. There won't be any money so debating whether we should give more money to the schools will be irrelevant. There won't be any to give. Now you can continue to argue that we don't pay enough or our salaries are in line but in the long run it won't matter. The system will be sucked dry. This is what we will be leaving our children.
That's the spirit!
Pessimistic? Maybe but where do you see this going? And what kind of debt do you think our children are going to be left with? Parents are worried about college loans and the liability that will leave their children with but what about the liabilities they will owe to the government? These children will be so far in the hole before they even get started. If you think I am way off base then so be it but please tell me how you see their future. I would like to think my kids will be all right but I am also a realist.
Hey! Don't worry they stripped the school aid out of the President's stimulus package. That only leaves about another $865b to worry about financing for our kids and their kids and their kid's kids. Phew! that was close. Who do we blame now?
Social security cost 15% of wages. If you are self employed, you pay the entire 15%. If not then the 15% is split between employee/employer. Social security does not provide near the entitlements that the state pension system does and it is still underfunded as is the pension fund. Lucky me, I pay the 15% for social security and I pay taxes to kick into the state pension fund to make it level funded. Why is it that teachers only pay 11% and get better benefits than social security? Why do I pay more for far less benefits and still have to kick in for the state pension fund? Give me a break.
Hey what's stopping you? be a teacher they got it so good.
Post a Comment