The state has issued their preliminary FY2010 required net school spending (RNSS) amounts and the result for Dartmouth is quite surprising. The total increase over last year is only $215,373. The FY2009 appropriation was at RNSS and totaled $33.011 million. FY2010 RNSS is $33.227 million. The town has budgeted for $34.458 million as the FY2010 school appropriation.
I have not been able to analyze the underlying numbers yet,...
...but I think that the lower than expected increase is due to the decrease in student population. Dartmouth schools had 140 fewer students enrolled. 140 students times roughly $9,000 per student comes to 1.26 million. That is about the difference between the budgeted amount and the RNSS projection [1,260,000(student decrease)+215,000(RNSS increase)=1,475,000, 34,458,000(FY10 estimate)-33,011,000(FY09budget)=1,447,000]
Wednesday, January 28, 2009
Preliminary school budget numbers. Surprising!
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67 comments:
Bill, Given this unexpected dividend would you be willing to entertain putting the crossing guards back in the budget at their level of $71k+-?
Greg Jones
Greg, I meant to ask you last night at the fincom meeting but forgot, did you get the invitation for candidates night and will you be coming? John Nunes will be participating.
Yes put me down Barry
Greg
Awesome Greg, That makes four out of the eight SB and SC candidates so far and I haven't contacted the last SB candidate to enter the race yet.
when is the candidates night?
I heard it was on March 11th but not sure
is this the hathaway henchman club?
I really want to attend so please keep us posted as to where and when this event will happen.
Im not surprised one bit. The numbers have been slowly falling for sometime. As a member of the school building/renovation committee we have seen a steady decline since 2006.
The CFRG will once again be hosting a candidates' night on March 11th @ 7:00 p.m. The location will be the Russells Mills Grange on Fisher Rd. Due to the response we received last year, those attending really enjoyed the hometown flavor of the event, we decided to remain at that location. I will ask Bill to post the info as a reminder the first week of March.
So what is the school department's budget number? Where would more cuts come from? Would they come from teachers or Administration?
The Select Board discussed meeting jointly with the School Committee at our last meeting. We will arrive at a convenient date and have them come in to talk about the budget.
Greg,
No, I don't think that I would fund crossing guards when there are more pressing needs in the budget.
That's too bad Bill. While I agree with the SB/FinCom approach to prioritizing need and then determining what to fund based on those priorities,I'm left scratching my head how school crossing guards worked out to be the absolute lowest priority in town. Out of everything the town funds this item was dead last. It's certainly possible I missed the discussion that determined this prioritization but I don't recall any recent discussion about it, any consultation with school administrators, police, parents etc..The last joint meeting of the SC/SB and FinCom seems an appropriate place to have brought this up so al parties could have some opportunity to figure out solutions, alternatives and make plans. Even now, the departments that are absorbing cuts have a chance to weigh in with the SB. The crossing guards? They're gone. Does'nt seem right.
Greg Jones
What about having parents from the Dartmouth Parents Group or other volunteers from town do the crossing guard function? Did anyone ask Lara Stone for suggestions? We need to think of solutions. How can we do this? If a parent had an orange vest and a red flag, I'm pretty sure drivers would stop. Most of them are probably parents driving their kids to school anyway. Let's be creative!
Volunteers do not have the authority to stop traffic. you can stand out there with your vest and waving flags all day and the drivers dont have to stop. Being "pretty sure they would stop" shows me you have more faith in Dartmouth drivers than I do. Since its my kids walking I'd rather have the guards and Im sure you would to the first time your stuck for 20 min around the high school either at 7am or 2:30
I'm not against trying to get volunteers to do things at the schools, many already do. Volunteers are not authorized to stop traffic and I fear they will be ignored, unlike some neighboring communities our Middle School and at least 2 of the 3 elementary schools front on some of the busiest streets in Town. A lot of people don't stop or slow for school busses now, lights or no lights, without some sort of control there will be problems. I also don't understand how a conclusion can be reached on an issue like this without any dialogue whatsoever between the parties most affected by the decision. We're in the same town and the same boat so to speak and no communication on this occurred that I'm aware of. No matter how you feel about the issue we should not be doing businsess this way. That needs to change in my opinion.
Greg Jones
Swing by the Middle School sometime at arrival or dismissal and you will soon learn that most drivers are NOT parents droppping off their kids. From what I see almost everyday its people late for something flying down Slocum Road at breakneck speed. Oh and try and turn South onto Slocum Road from Hawthorn Street at dismissal. Forget about it, the school busses will be stacked up down the street-no one willlet them into the traffic. It will be like the street light fiasco, gone for a while then back after the first accident. Not smart.
This morning a child was struck by a driver getting on his bus. so much for "pretty sure they will stop" I want crossing guards!!!
Where did this happen? Is the kid ok?
There has been a child hit in Appoganusett(sp) Village. no more details available.
Very sorry to hear that, hopefully it won't be too serious.
I hate to disagree but the current crossing guards have very little authority. As far as I know they have no authority to issue tickets or the authority to enforce the law at all. There would not be a lot of difference between volunteers and the current guards.
My question to Greg Jones would be, where do you think the cuts should come from? You don't believe crossing guards should be such a low priority but you don't offer any other plan or solution. This is what has been happening for the last couple of years. We all know cuts have to be made but every time proposals/ideas are put forth, there is always opposition and reasons why it can't/shouldn't be done. Every item in the budget is a priority for someone so how do you go about making cuts? Someone has to make these decisions. If we put every item up for debate, we will never get anywhere because there will always be someone to object.
Is there a crossing guard in Apponagansett Village?
MORE DETAILS. the child is at St Luke's it does not APPEAR at present it is life threatening, but we will not know for sure until full med check. it happen on that bad curve on Russells Mills south of Apponagansett Village. He said boy was hit by car coming opposite way, lights on bus flashing, boy rolled up onto hood carried on hood a significant distance.
This doesnt go to the authority of the crossing guards but the quality of dartmouth drivers.
They do have the authority to STOP traffic and carry radios to notify the police immediatly when situations arise. They do have the authority to radio in tag numbers for tickets when the driver doesnt stop in the crosswalk as required by law.
To anon 8:31 - there was no debate on this item whatsoever. There was no discussion-there was just a determination that this item was the lowest priority in town. In fact the discussion that was had this past Tuesday night was not to simply cut this amount of money from the town budget but instead to move it into the DPW because some felt the DPW was taking too big of a budget hit. The question that should be then asked if that is the case is what in that budget should be put back in when the crossing guard item gets eliminated. That discussion has not even been had yet so how can anyone with a straight face say this 'unknown' item in another budget is a higher priority than the item eliminated. You can't say it. Its that simple.
At least Bill answered my original question at the top of the page. But even the answer does not identify what is a higher priority that should get funded first. My point is the discussion has not occurred with the very people who are most affected by this decision. I am not asking that every question gets debated I am asking that items of importance such as crossing guards at schools should at least be brought before the school committee so they can be part of the solution. Is that too much to ask?
Greg Jones
And I am hopeful the child will fully recover and as a previous poster said this is not strictly related to the crossing guard issue rather to the quality and attitude of drivers these days-flashing bus lights mean very little it seems.
Forgot to sign my post above,
Greg Jones
I,d rather have somebody hit another pothole than hit another child
C'mon folks! There are 26 schools in NB and no crossing guards. Tons more kids walking to school. Anyway even the current crossing guards stop traffic FIRST then wave the kids across. Same procedure used by the volunteers who work in NB. I go by a busy intersection at Brock Ave every day and the kids are crossing to go to an ELEMENTARY school.
Apparently drivers in NB stop, in Dartmouth you take your chances
What thump?
The child has been flown to boston by medi-vac helicopter according to the DPD
Goto ABC6.com and read some stories about people being hit in crosswalks. So much for the everyone will stop theory.
http://www.turnto10.com/jar/news/local/article/man_dies_after_being_struck_by_car/9651/
Do we really want a dartmouth child being tomorrow's headline (phony headline) "http://www.turnto10.com/jar/news/local/article/Dartmouth_student_dies_after_being_struck_by_car/9651/
Greg, the question asked was what do YOU think should be eliminated. Again I would argue that every item can be viewed as being a high priority as you claim crossing guards are. We have to cut somewhere so give us an item or service you feel should be cut in order to keep the crossing guards.
Volunteer crossing guards can just as easily have radios and act on situations as do the current guards.
Volunteers CANNOT stop traffic. They have no authority. Ask the chief
I understood the question anon 2:52 but as I tried to explain until I am informed what the items are on the DPW list that apparently are a higher priority than the crossing guards I cant answer it. The night this cut was made public was the same night the same funds got placed into the DPW account for as yet unidentified higher priorities. All in the span of a maybe 5-10 minutes. What those higher priority items are I don't know. I'm not going to go shooting in the dark on what is a higher priority than another without knowing all the details, which I do not. The larger issue is one of transparency and communication not what I think is a higher priority than something else. That's the best I can do for you.
Greg Jones
Greg, Since the increase in the school rnss is only going to be a probable $200k+, have you run the numbers to support your position of giving the teachers a raise this year? Will that be enough to support the 1/2% raise this year that you mention on your web site? Remember, any money above rnss belongs to the general fund. I haven't run the numbers yet but my guess is that it is not enough.
Okay folks, let's be real. Certainly if a driver is going to ignore a volunteer crossing guard, they'll do the same for any crossing guard. I think most people stop when they are in a school area and avoid them if in a hurry. I don't want to see anyone hit by a car, child or adult, but I don't think drivers can tell who the crossing guards are. Look both ways before you cross the street is one of the first things I taught my children. Volunteers would be able to insure safety.
You are correct anon 4:37 and I will be re-doing the numbers based on the lower figures it looks like will be coming this year. The web site was put up on Saturday and the new figures came in this Wednesday and may alter my thoughts given the reality of the new figure. To borrow an over used phrase - the budget is a moving target. If we don't have it we can't give it out whether we think we should or not. So look for an update and explanation by the end of the week end.
Greg Jones
yeah I knew it would not be too long before we get to blame the kid for not looking both ways.
Greg: Your foresight into our childrens' safety is tragically accurate. Please don't be discouraged by the adversity you will face due to your concern for the well being of children and families within this community.
The deeply anti-tax, anti-family and anti-child crowd within this town will continue to distort and belittle the needs of Dartmouth's families.
Please stay focused and dedicated to the children and families of this town in your run for school committee. Good luck!
Thanks anon 6:11, If I get the chance I'll do my best as an advocate for a high quality education, I appreciate the support.
Barry, did'nt see your name on the question above and called you anon 4:37 - meant to answer your post of 4:25. Must be getting old....
Greg Jones
How do you justify the terms anti-tax, anti-family, & anti-child? Are you saying it is only those who don't care about families or children that are against paying more taxes?
Anti-tax - well that is obvious isn't it? Anti-family- you are labeled as an elitist if you value your child's education. Anti-child- Public safety is listed as #1 priority but our children's safety is ignored. no crossing guards, no bus monitors.
I'm curious whether any of the posters here would be willing to volunteer their time to act the part of those crossing guards. It is easy to say we'll get volunteers to do it, but realistically, could we get volunteers? Can we get quality, reliable, dependable volunteers willing to stand in the middle of our busiest streets, day in and day out, in the rain, cold, wind, snow and heat? In this economy I'm looking to work odd jobs (for additional income) not looking to volunteer more of my time. I wonder how many others are in the same predicement?
To Greg, you have a site up and running. Love to read it but I must have missed the address. Can you post it?
sure anon 9:00, it's www.gregjonesdps.net
still a work in progress so any comments let me know.
Greg Jones
To Anon 4:37 " I think most people stop when they are in a school area" that says it all "MOST" it only takes one car not stopping and your child is either seriously injured or dead. but I guess 71,000 is just too expensive for PUBLIC SAFETY. oh wait PUBLIC SAFETY was priority #1 I guess if your voting age only
The volunteer crossing guards could probably be easily implemented through the property tax rebate program for seniors.
On Monday night when the crossing guard allocation was cut, NO monies were transferred to the DPW budget. The DPW is of concern, but the real depth of that concern is as yet unknown. They were to meet with the Select Board on Monday, I believe, to further examine the impact on the DPW of a 15% cut and how much more may be needed to insure that our public infrastructure and safety is maintained.
I would remind everyone that behind the scenes the DPW IS repairing roadways with the budget monies appropriated. Where possible State Chapter 90 funds reimburse a portion of those those costs. Recent reimbursement figures hover around $800K / Yr. A cut in DPW funds means that fewer roadways are able to be repaired, allowing those roads to deteriorate to a greater degree thus requiring even greater sums of money in the future to address.... monies that are then not available for crossing guards, or libraries or anything else. In the past two years alone the cost roadways in need of immediate repair has risen from $3.5 mil to $5.5 mil. Fewer people in the DPW means less in-house work can be done with the people and machinery remaining leading to more expensive hiring of outside firms to do the work and longer lead times to get the work done. All of this impacts the monies available to support schools, libraries, parks and all the other things we enjoy and cherish.
This is why nothing stands alone ... everything is interconnected and totally dependent on each other for survival and growth.
I will send the Fin Com primer on Ch90 funds to Bill. Should he decide to link to it here then you will understand how this program works.
Thanks Greg Lynam for giving the facts. It is refreshing when most of what is posted here is pure speculation regarding what should be done with the budget and why. It sure sounds good though during election time.
A child was hit yesterday by a 16 year old driver. I hope he is going to be okay.
Are we going to use that accident as an argument that we need crossing guards? Should we have a crossing guard on every bus so that children can be escorted across the street?
Greg L,
You know I respect everything you do for this town and I would not want to post something that was knowingly incorrect so perhaps a fuller explanation of just what transpired on Tuesday night would help us all understand the process. At Tuesday's FinCom working session the crossing guard line item was cut as was the YA position. Following a brief discussion it was suggested - I don't recall by whom, that since the DPW budget was cut so drastically that the money cut from the CG and YA postions be moved into the DPW budget. That was the discussion as I remember it. At Thursday night's formal meeting, this discussion of transfers did not occur. That's how I remeber it and I believe continues to be an accurate representation of what transpired. Greg Jones
Greg Jones, you are correct. The monies reduced from the Crossing Guards, and Youth Commission, and others, were moved into the "Priority Adjustment Reserve " pot for future consideration.
The general discussion was along several lines where additional funds might be required and the DPW was but one of those that will likely need additional funding. Another was the vocational assessment, which we have since seen rise another $378K. There is the burgeoning need to address the nearing $10 mil in capital needs, including capital purchases to address schools needs that directly effect education [ in my opinion ].
The governors cuts to our state aid of some $400K are limited only by $300K in meals and hotel taxes not yet approved by the legislature. In other words this $300K does not actually yet exist and even if voted into existence it is uncertain when the mechanisms would actually be in place to get the funds into our hands. We may be looking at further reductions in state aid of some $300K yet - something that will not be known until as late as mid summer in most years. Let's hope they act more swiftly than in past years.
Note: The $300K in Pot-Hole money promised us last fall has yet to arrive, and it is very much uncertain if it ever will.
All of these things, and many more, bring great uncertainty to the accuracy of what we think we know at this time ... and we have to plan accordingly.
As always thanks Greg L!
Greg Jones
Mr. Lyman it appears we have begun cutting into our core services. I make that statement after looking at the MOB and no longer seeing anything lower then a priority #3 left and reading your post listing other essential capital needs of the town that have yet to be addressed.
Mr. Lyman in your opinion, do you think we can balance the budget and keep our core services in tact?
To anon 10:02
NOPE!!!!! The nice to haves are gone or going and now the MUST haves are taking a hit next. Holy Crap we are going to hell..
anon 12:34 I asked that question seriously because I want Mr. Lyman's opinion. Much has been said about our core services vs our nice to haves. I personally don't see crossing guards and the youth advocate as nice to haves. But now that they are gone and we're looking at the possibility that we still may not be able to balance the budget I want to hear Mr. Lyman's thoughts about that. What then do we do?
Someone asked : " do ( I ) think we can balance the budget and keep our core services in tact? "
"Core Services " mean different things to different people. We will retain the mandated "Core Services " reflected in priorities 1 & 2 because that is the law. Priorities 3 & 4 will depend on how seriously we pursue consolidation and regionalization. This decline is nothing new, it has been happening since 2003, under good times - we haven't seen the bad times yet.
I hesitate to venture beyond the telling of facts in venues like this because there is nothing that makes my opinion any better than anyone else's but I will give you my view of the overall situation for whatever that is worth.
I know when I was growing up Dartmouth was a strong, conservative town soundly managed by people that lived through the great depression and knew what hardship really was. " Core Services " were defined differently. They feared the day would return when money was scarce and jobs hard to come by and acted accordingly. This is the town that our Fathers & Mothers passed on to us.
We never experienced those depression days and the lessons learned have faded, having been lost to the history books. We have replaced that conservative town so proudly given to us with one that now takes every penny we can scrape together just to manage the decline. Now that we are re-learning those lessons of depravation ; Do we really want to preserve this legacy and pass it on to our children, forever burdening them with the costs of perpetuating our mistakes so that they too can never get ahead ? We need to fix this.
We need to rebuild the foundation of our town to be more efficient, thus stronger and more able to withstand financial storms. We need to share our core costs of administration, maintenance and service delivery among like communities in order to strengthen the foundation upon which those services are delivered. In doing so your children will inherit something worth building upon and the ability to do so, unhampered by the crushing costs of inefficiencies.
The Select Board three are on the right track, but we have already waited too long to act. We can not wait any longer, yet the upcoming election will decide if we do or don't. The economy will turn around of that I have confidence. When it does, if we were smart about it, we will have positioned ourselves to build Dartmouth back better than it was before and at a cost that your children can afford. We will have a town to proudly pass on as was done for us.
If we are not smart about it, then the answer to your question is no, regardless of what the economy does.
Thank you for your answer Mr. Lyman. While I agree that the direction we must go in is one that brings in balance our revenue with our expenses, where I am continually frustrated is why we have to disrupt the lives of Dartmouth residents to do this. When large corporations do this they do it with as little impact to the service they provide their customer as possible or they lose their customers to someone that can provide a better service.
Why must our residents (especially our children and our seniors) as well as our town employees be made to suffer through this? I keep hearing that if we pass an override then “they” won't be forced to fix the problem, this will force “them” to fix the problem. I am of the mindset that good leadership should have been able to do this simultaneously regardless of who the EA was. I would like to hear your thoughts on this?
Question is : "Why must our residents (especially our children and our seniors) as well as our town employees be made to suffer through this? "
There is an inevitability to spending more than you make. For years now our income has grown between 5 - 6 % year over year while our spending grew at 7 - 8 % . We made it seem as though everything was going along fine by not replacing retiring workers and by diverting monies normally spent maintaining our infrastructure, to our operating budget. Rather like you just getting by on your weekly salary by simply not replacing the balding tires on your car ..... at some point it catches up to you and there is a financial crisis, as it has caught up to us.
Oddly enough, those who argue against change citing the negative effects you mentioned, are the very cause of these negative effects. By refusing to look at less costly ways of providing the same services, they are forcing a reduction in those services as costs continue to rise above our income.
The trends of this fiscal crisis are not new .. they are clearly seen in the making for several years now. Had the warnings been addressed sooner, we would not be cutting crossing guards, libraries or COA to the degree necessary today. We would have moved to a more cost efficient way of providing those services. Yes, there would still be a shrinkage in available money but its effects would have been far less severe.
Part of your conclusion is exactly right, " ..... good leadership should have been able to do this simultaneously ...." When it comes to combining departments and regionalizing services you must depend on the knowledge that only the full time EA possesses. Part time Select Board members can not possibly know the intimate details needed to refashion the delivery of services so that they still work in the final resolve. That is why their power is limited by statute to policy decisions only. If their policy is to consolidate and regionalize to maximum benefit, then it becomes the EA's job to use his / her intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the town to fashion a plan to accomplish the goals of that policy and present it to the Select Board for final approval .. or not. If not, then it is re-made and presented again... and again if necessary until it meets with their approval in furtherance of the stated policy and goals. It is the plan that has never materialized and that has led to our current state of flux.
To their credit this Select Board has taken it upon themselves to pursue that plan .... this is not their job but the alternative is to sit back, do nothing and complain that it is someone else's job while services continue to erode. I expect my leaders to step up to the plate and get the job done without bickering about whose job it is and that is why I support the Select Board three in their efforts.
To Greg Jones, Why don't you ask the police (Joe Viera)if he will come to one of the school com. meetings or parent groups to discuss the issue of safety. I agree that the accident on Thursday was a horrible situation. The boy's mother was right there at the bus stop. In this case, I don't think it has anything to do with a crossing guard. I am still wondering why New Bedford can have volunteers and it seems to work out well, yet you don't want to consider having volunteer crossing guards in Dartmouth? In New Bedford they stop the traffic FIRST and then let the children cross. I've seen it and it works.
To Anon 12:18,
I think it's not a bad idea to have the safety officer visit the schools-he may already be doing so but I can check. I only know what I've read in the paper about the accident that happened last week plus some incidentals on the boy that was hit, so I am not in any position to comment on what occurred or how it might be prevented in the future other than to say we all must be more careful than we are. I am frankly amazed more accidents do not occur gievn what we all see go on everyday.
I understand that New Bedford has a volunteer system of crossing guards as do some other communities. I have numerous concerns about relegating this duty to volunteers and since this item is still fresh at less than a week old I have not had the time to fully research alternatives. I will tell you my immediate thoughts on volunteers however. We know a volunteer has no authority to ask a vehicle to stop in the road, a crossing guard does have that legal authority - I think that matters a lot. We know that the crossing guards we have have demonstrated that they are reliable and do their jobs very well. To my knowledge there have not been any accidents in recent memory where a crossing guard has been stationed. We know our crossing guards show up rain or shine, and if they did not, would be terminated. Can we say the same thing about a team of volunteers? What is our recourse if a volunteer decides (s)he does not feel like going to serve today? What if people, knowing volunteers have no authority, simple drive on by? Do we take that chance?
My other concern,and I have a little experience with this, is will we get a sufficient number of reliable, dedicated volunteers to serve morning and afternoons? The schools already rely very heavily on volunteers and in many many areas could use a whole lot more volunteers than they have. I have grave concerns that we would be able to round up sufficient numbers of people willing to do this very dangerous task. The responsibilities are huge, the working conditions are far from ideal and the need is great. I volunteer for a lot of things, some not so much fun, but if you were to ask me would I volunteer for this job (assuming I could take the time off from work twice a day every day for 180 days/year) I would say the honest answer would be no. So I think the volunteer angle needs a lot more study before I would say its a possibility.
Finally, my point in some of the comments I've made to date on this item is that our town leaders have said on numerous occassions that Public Safety is a #1 priority for the town. As the 1 priority it will continue to receive the funding it needs to ensure public safety. Removing crossing guards in my opinion undoubtedly reduces public safety. If this becomes the final word on the crossing guards then we must come up with alternate ways to ensure that the safe arrival and dismissal of school students is not compromised. They do represent over 10% of the population of the town and should have equal access to public safety.
Greg Jones
Mr. Lyman I don't disagree one bit, with your summarization that the EA with proper goals and objectives should have been able to accomplish regionalization and consolidation of our services by now. What I strongly disagree with is the fact that he was never given the proper goals and objectives with specific performance measures to get there, nor the proper staff and support.
I find it hard to believe that one man is to blame for prohibiting all progress on a regionalization and consolidation plan, especially since we have only recently in the last few weeks heard the words spoken by our Select Board.
And now to add insult to injury we must endure a legal battle, which could cost this town, a great deal of money again I believe this to be a very poor, unnecessary and hasty leadership choice. Yes, just my opinion sir but I have to say there are many long time residents such as myself that share it.
Thank you again Mr. Lyman for your comments and for the work you do for our town.
Anyone with a flag and orange vest who steps into a legally painted crosswalk can stop traffic because a driver, under the law, must stop when a pedestrian enters the crosswalk. They don't stop because of the orange vest and flag.
What the crossing guard does over and above the orange vest and flag is the authority under the law to stop traffic in all directions and if a violation occurs, can radio in the tags and description of the vehicle.
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