Curt Brown's article lists some of the projects that Dartmouth has submitted to the Governor for funding if the federal government provides economic stimulus money to the state. The projects are not listed in order of preference and the state would have a say in ...
... which projects are selected if the funds end up being available. I will post a full list later tonight.
Friday, January 16, 2009
Town lists economic stimulus projects
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45 comments:
This town is a joke. I went to kids' school today, peeling school walls. Closet doors practically falling off hinges. Tiles missing from floors. Grime beyond grime. Any you want Quinn windows fixed through stimulus. How about some School administrators or Select Board caring that the inside of our schools are slums. And the heat is too high due to faulty wasteful system. I don't give a flying fig about the Padanaram bridge for summer people. Do something about the state of the school walls, floors, bathrooms. Start by getting rid of that precious Bush Street. I'd like to see those people exist in slum conditions!
It is true that the town fathers and mother need to tour our schools room by room and nook by nook to witness reality.
This school system wastes more money on stupid stuff then anyone knows. One example is at DMS where they are going to make DCTV move so that they can move 2 class rooms, at the most, up from the "tunnel". This is all because a few parents complained because their kids had to have class down in the tunnel. When I went through DHS we had many classes down there but know we need to spend thousands of dollars, if not tens of thousand of dollars, to change this space. Not to mention that DCTV will have to spend tens of thousands to move also. But then we cannot fix the lockers, buy books, or fix what is wrong now. This is just stupid but it is also why we don't have enough money to buy important materials. Maybe the school department needs to look at cleaning out their management staff too.
It is a shame that the schools have not been maintained over the years. Who's fault is that? The town owns the buildings but the school is responsible for them. It's all about setting priorities. None of us can have it all. Over the years I saw a new track built at the high school while at the same time the roof at Potter and Gidley was leaking. I think most will agree that any roof has a life and needs to be maintained/replaced accordingly. The roof should have been a priority (in my book) but was not. Oh well. I guess the new track was more important than water coming into the classrooms!Maybe the PTO can change this by voicing their concerns and their priorities.
The town owns the buildings and is responsible for the capital maintenance of them. Things like roofs, windows, boilers etc., are placed on a priority list developed by the Capital Improvement Committee and presented to the FinCom for review and recommendations either forward to town meeting for approval or not. I don't know about the track vs. roof scenario previously described but that's my understanding of the overall method for capital needs on buildings. There are no doubt many capital improvements needed on all town buildings.
oops hit the return key too soon. If I were to hazard a guess (dangerous I know) I would say the track at the HS was part of the overall construction cost for the HS project that the town is getting a significant re-imbursement for from the state's school building authority-on the order of 69% if I remember correctly. I'm pretty sure they would not have been able to take money earmarked for the HS and use it for the roof problems you described even if they wanted to.
Greg Jones
I'm sorry but this all goes back to the issue of Michael Gagne and the powers that WERE in this town. When revenues were flowing in, and they were, a lot of the capital improvements should have been addressed. Our buildings, bridges etc. should have been updated/repaired and equipment replaced. What we got instead were salaries and benefits for town employees. Dartmouth used to be the envy because we had the money. Now our town is in disrepair and broke.
Regardless of who one feels is responsible or not responsible the capital needs have not gone away and will have to be addressed sooner or later, some much sooner. The question becomes how? and what are the priorities when beginning to address the needs?
Greg Jones
The track mentioned is not the one at the new high school, but the one at the former high school, now the middle school. There was some controversy at the time of installation of that track that the roof was leaking and money was spent on a track. As is the case now, the question was one of priorities.
Got it - was before my time assumed it was the currnet HS track being discussed.
The issue is not irrelevant. There are those who are still fighting change and will not admit we have a serious problem with employee pay and compensation. We cannot begin to address our capital needs until we find the money for them. Since salaries are over 70% of the budget, that is the direction we will have to go. Why is that an admin. can leave and not only receive 80% of their top three years salary as retirement but also get $30-35k? I understand there is need for pension reform and it has to come from the state but why must we throw in the added bonuses? Please don't tell me they are dedicated and worked very hard for them. Isn't that their job and weren't they being paid very well to do it? And yes, they were being paid very well. $90-100k is a whole lot of money and 80% of that for life is still a whole lot of money. Most people aren't making that while they are still working. It'll be interesting to see how much Mr. Gagne walks away with when all of his buyouts are added up. Come retirement, he'll be collecting over $90k a year but we'll still be giving him a big fat bonus on top of that.
Agree, salaries must stay in control but competitive. Difficult balance. How do we strike this balance while not having everything around town fall apart? Ideas people?
When these topics come up I find it useful to define what I understand the issue is and then proceed to debate its merits. The recent payouts for retiring school administrators - bonuses as you put them - are payments made in lieu of sick time not taken. It is dollar for dollar cheaper for the schools to have these people working thus avoiding paying for that persone when (s)he is out sick as well as paying for a subsitute to fill in on the sick day. After 30 years of keeping their sick time down the pay out is small in comparison. 30,000 over 30 years equals $1,000/year or maybe 5 sickdays at $200/day for 30 years. This has got to be much cheaper than a ful days pay X 10 sick days plus the cost of a substitute teacher. How is this called a 'bonus'?
Perhaps there is a different way to do this that is more equitable for all but right now the way I see it the town is making out just fine. I would like to see a better way for the school to track such retirement pay outs so they dont have a surprise impact on a very tight budget like they undoubtedly will this year with 2 long term school employees retiring and 1 not so long termer leaving as well.
Greg Jones
You are forgetting vacation buyouts that no other town or city seems to have. How about the buyout coming at the end of the year instead of after 30 yrs. when the per diem rate is that much higher? The problem continues to remain the same with the same old philosophies. That's the way it has always been done so that's the way it should stay.
Solutions are coming forth but not without a lot of kicking & screaming. Kudos to the SB for hiring a contract negotiator and replacing Gagne. Now there's progress. Another solution. All new hires need to start with lower salaries and less benefits. Why was the new town clerk hired at the same salary as Mrs. White who had been there for years and was a wealth of information? Same thing with the assistant school superintendent. Very foolish and two examples of missed opportunities.
Other solutions call for privatization but each department scrambles for reasons why it can't be done. The library board has its wagons circled. They won't even look at it.
Dartmouth citizens need to get onboard and start demanding changes instead of defending the status quo. Town officials and employees are not going to make sacrifices because it is not in their best interests to do so. If you want this town to remain solvent and have infrastructure that is not falling apart, then stop justifying salaries/benefits and start looking at the solutions proposed with an open mind. The DPW, library, park dept, schools etc are all going to tell you why something can't be done. Just remember the source and the motives.
Not to worry, Prez O is on the way to the white house, I can hearing that train a-coming. Dartmouth is just one town, in a large number of cities/towns, that are in NEED. The banks NEED money from the tax payers to pay off bad loans to people who never should have been given loans. The auto makers are in NEED of tax payers money to continue operations or they shall NEED to lay-off workers. The states are in NEED of tax payers money to keep them from financial collapse.
Not to worry, Prez O is on the way to the white house. I can hear the train whistle a-blowing. Before we know it, we shall all be living in the land of milk & honey. As they say in Dartmouth, You ain't seen nothing yet. Poor English/grammar, I NEED to learn more so I won”t NEED to be spending tax payers money. We NEED money for school repairs. We NEED money to live a better life. We NEED to cut back on the NEED for town employee's.
Dartmouth Needs to be careful. Spend money on what is NEED'FULL or required. The selectmen NEED to be careful of our NEEDS. Just stop your NEEDING and put your ear to the tracks and listen. Our new Prez O he's a-cominggggg. WhoooooWhooooooo Hang on to your wallet.
Have fun guys. I've focused my energy on learning about school issues as they are, for me, the most important thing in my and my family's lives at this point so those are the things I've tried to study up about. I will not get on the train that lays all our town's problems at the feet of its employees. Sorry, coan't help you there.
Greg Jones
Damn, Greg don't you get it teachers and town employees should all work for free. You know the story, "when i went to school we walked 10 miles uphill both ways" mentality only exists here. Don't waste your time trying to convince anyone here that employees should get paid to do a job that none of them could ever dream of being able to do. It's a race to the bottom here in Dartmouth and it has been kicked into overdrive recently with the economic downturn. I have an idea let's get some inmates from the sheriff's department to come in and clean the schools. There's an idea. Heck all town employees going forward should be replaced by Chain Gangs in orange jumpsuits. There's Datmouth pride for ya.
Excuse me but aren't sick days to be used if you are unfortunate enough to get sick? They are not an entitlement to that amount of extra paid days. Personally, I don't mind if people can save their sick days in case they get seriously ill. Then I also don't mind taking care of them during an extended sick leave absence. However, they should not be entitled to sick leave pay that they don't need. It is not an entitlement. It is there because we care about employees who really need it. I would rather be healthy, not need it, and not collect the extra money. Healthy people who walk away with $30k in sick leave money at the end of their career are only making it harder to fund sick leave pay for those who need it.
One solution to that would be to switch to a set amount of Paaid Time Off. Employees use it for whatever purpose they choose, sick, personal etc. Perhaps with a limited number of days that can be carried forward. There are a number of ways to address this going forward. The purpose of my initial response was to make the point that calling already bargained for and agreed to payments for untaken time off a 'bonus' is a misnomer at best and perhaps disingenuous. But that seems to be where all dialouge seems to go before long in Dartmouth these days. Hey, I gave it a shot.
Greg Jones
This is exactly what I am talking about. How can you not call it a bonus? And if it's not, who was the genius who bargained that in as an entitlement? How many textbooks could you buy with just one buyout of 30k? And you didn't address the vacation buyouts either. Those aren't a bonus??? Ask other communities if they are paying for vacation buyouts?
So what exactly was the point of your comment? What solutions are you willing to advocate for? I know you want more money but where is it going to come from? All I hear is how much more the schools need and that salaries are fine. No response from you regarding the new hires. So where would you suggest the money will come from? Employees are over 70% of the budget. As I said earlier, if you are not willing to stop defending salaries and benefits, you will be left with the staus quo. The status quo has left us broke.
Anon 10:15 - I explained why calling it bonus is a misnomer. I also gave a suggestion on how days off might be addressed in the future, perhaps you missed it. I do not advocate ignoring contracts that were written in good faith and followed through on. Other communities do indeed have sick time buy out provisions in their contracts - fewer have vacation buy outs. Some type of 'use it or lose it provision should be included in contracts. Please explain to me how paying someone $30k after 30+ years is more expensive than paying them and a substitute for 30 years of sick time and vacation time. You're content to ignore my explanation of why I feel it's economical but offer no back up for your position. Do some math for me.
Where in any of my comments did I say I want more money? If you read my recent letter to the editor you will note I said we need to re-order our priorities to focus on academic needs as additional money will not be coming any time soon. That's the problem I have with many of these blogs. Bill is generous enough to provide a forum for discussion but it seems that many are content to sit back and lob grenades in the safety of anonymity that any discussion degrades quickly. I assume the new hire you speak of is the position of assist super - what would you have me say? Yes the position is needed, I support it having been filled. Was the starting salary higher than I think it should have been? Yes, I think it was. If it were $10k lower would that address all the shortcomings of the school system? No it would not. You say salary costs represent 70% of the budget and that's true enough, however unlike making some widget in a factory education requires teachers in classrooms and admiistration to support those teachers and like it or not there is a direct correlation between the numbers of students in each classroom and a school's performance. Dartmouth already has a high student teacher ratio so I will also not be the one to advocate lessening our teaching staff. There is talk of regionilization perhaps of school districts to eliminate duplication of administrative positions. This is a concept very much worth studying and could yield significant results in savings. The talk is not only at the local level but also at the State level and is discussed in some detail in the gov's education inititaive. It will take some time to get there so in the meantime I will continue to advocate for the students in our system now even if it does not hue to the party line of schools cost too much where can we get more money out of them.
One request, I'm sure it won't be honored but what the heck, why not sign your name to your posts and stand behind your commentary? Why stay in the shadows? For me, I've done my best to explain my positions and put my name to them but I am going to take my own advise and refrain from responding to additional, anonymous posts we seem to get nowhere with them.
Greg Jones
Here you go again. I never said we shouldn't honor existing contracts. I never said other communities don't have sick leave buyouts. What I said was other communities don't have vacation buyouts and we need to address new hires.
Your explanation just doesn't explain that it is not a bonus. I worked for a company who gave sick leave. You could save your days so if you had a serious illness, you still had an income. However when you left that job, you left your saved leave. It was there to help employees in case of an emergency. It was not a bonus that you left with.
I also never said it was more economical. I said we shouldn't be buying people out to begin with or it should be paid off at the end of every year.
Dartmouth schools and how they are doing. That depends on whether they are justifying salaries or asking for more money to fund salaries. The former statistics show the children are doing great and scores are up so paying higher salaries is working. The latter shows they are doing poorly and scores are down so we need more employees and we have to pay them well. I've been to several presentations. They are not my statistics, they are the schools'.
The attitude that we'll only be saving 10k is part of the problem. What if you could save 10k for half the employees? Would that get your attention?
The voters have turned down the school overrides twice. Why do you think that is? They are too cheap? That's the easy explanation. The reason is exactly what I am trying to tell you. Salaries/ benefits are too high and school officials/parents are too arrogant to admit it and do something about it. The schools have some parents brainwashed into believing they deserve higher salaries because they are so much better than those in other school systems. You can try to ignore and deny that but that is the truth of the matter. Until something is done to address this problem, there will be no more money and Dartmouth citizens will not support the schools.
The Diane Gilberts standard times letter, concerning T H E contract language, is worth reading. Speaking of contract language, not too long ago, a former school committee board, negotiated a contract clause with all school unions This clause, approved by all school department employee's, stated that all salary increases shall depend on town meeting members approval of school department budgets.
For some unknown reason, the now in place school committee members, voted to exclude the agreed contract language. Was this done in the best interest of the town? What say YOU??
I've explained my thoughts on the issues you've raised and you choose to ignore or disregard my comments on the very issues you asked me to address. You further twist my responses to suit your own agenda and you continue to be content to do so in anonymity which I imagine is a pretty comfortable place to be. Have at it folks.
Greg Jones
To Greg,
Talking around in complicated circles seems to give you assurance that you are always right because nobody else can follow you. Try keeping it simple and see if you can win people over. That's the real test.
Simple question needing a simple answer--- The asst. Sup was just hired at the same salary as the previous one who had been there for many years. You said you didn't think that was wise. If this policy ceased wouldn't that add up to substantially lower operating costs?
You poo poo this because it is only ten grand but when it gets repeated, it causes great damage.
Anon - trying to give as simple answers as possible. I said decision to hire the ass't super at the salary given was unwise-I'm not sure how much clearer that answer can be. How would want me to say the same thing?
I have also said that on average our salaries are not out of line with other communities, I still believe that, I also said balancing the budget solely on school employee's backs is not going to be the answer. People here seem to like to make sweeping generalizations and carry them across the board to make their case. I wish it were that simple but like most things it's not.
Greg, just give up it's a waste of your valuable time. Let's see how i can put it best,"my kids are out of school therefore i do not want to pay for schooling ANYMORE, damn it"
There it is, the simple answer to all the questions!! Going around in circle's with these people is useless.
I hear you Anon 12:01 and agree-but find these damn blogs can be addicting especially when its snowing out and the kids are out doing their thing! Was it Al Pacino that said 'they just keep pulling me back in!"? I try and remind myself it's a blog site and don't take it or myself too seriously when responding. I figure if I keep it all in perspective I have not lost anything so why not? Thanks for the advice though-will be taking it seriously.
Greg Jones
Greg, as simply as I put it, you were still unable to answer the question.
Whenever someone has a different view of the issues, there is always someone who comes on the blog to imply that it is a complete waste of time explaining anything. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, that doesn't invalidate their argument.
ok - still snowing so why not.
There is no policy that I am aware of that states new hires in a position will be hired at the rate of the person they are replacing. Such a policy would be wrong.
It was and is my opinion that a new hire with less experience than the person they are replacing should not automaticlly get the same pay.
The same principal should hold if the replacement has more experience or some additional qualifications than the person they are replacing. A case could be made that the new person should receive more pay than their predecessor.
Neither decision should be made in a 'budget vacuum' either. Any new hire salary decision should take into account priorities estabished and available funds.
How's that?
Greg Jones
Greg, it's a simple enough question. Requires a yes or no answer only. "If this policy ceased, wouldn't that add up to substainlly lower operating costs?" Yes or no.
"There is no such policy" Maybe it is not a written policy but it is an "established" policy and it needs to stop. Between the new hires just recently and the seperation packages given out this year alone we are talking about 15% of the deficit for this year. The seperation packages are a one shot deal but this established hiring policy is a gift that keeps on giving.
Yes Greg, listen to that last poster about how we are all ignorant here and you will have the perfect excuse not to answer any direct questions, hence leaving yourself with the impression that your views are far superior to anyone else's. The reality is that money is FINITE and a lot of people are just going to have to realize it.
Greg: Anonymous 9:08 stated precisely what I thought when I read your statement regarding $10K. That money by itself even would be $10K more to spend or save toward something far more necessary than an individual's salary. Books? Locker repair? Handicap accessibility? Sure, all cost more than $10K, but it's a start.
I'm glad you acknowledged Mrs. Riley's starting salary as being a little too high. Personally, and this is just my opinion and I will no doubt get some flak from it, I thought it was a slap in the Dartmouth taxpayers' faces that an individual who not only did not have her degree for the position, nor her certification to be either a superintendent or assistant superintendent, but was in the process of acquiring them, was given the salary she was, even if it were at the low end of the $108-$115K range. Add to that there would be "wage reopeners" over the next two years, presumably I imagine, to up her salary once she gets the requisite degree and certification, and I really felt we as a community were taken once again.
What an excellent opportunity for the school to show the community its good faith in an attempt on its part to return us to fiscal health. Guess what? They blew it.
Will the new hires that replace the retiring principals and athletic director be given generous salaries that they, by all accounts, should work to earn over the course of a few, at least, years in Dartmouth's school system? Even if they come with the highest credentials and work experience, the reality might be that we simply cannot afford to pay them the salaries we would like to pay. They can say 'no" and the search would have to go on, wouldn't it? Or, we cave and give them money we can ill afford to give
Will the school again blow our money when it could recognize some savings, even if small? Every little $10K saved here and there adds up.
I have to laugh when I read and hear how we have to pay top dollar to attract "good" teachers. By "good" I would assume is meant experienced??
Does everyone making that statement not recognize that all these "good" teachers started out as individuals straight out of college, with no experience. Does "good" equate with experience? Where did all the "good" teachers we have in Dartmouth now start? No one of them came out experienced and ready to rock and roll into our classrooms.
Don't use "good," "quality," and the like as an excuse to spend more money than we can afford to spend and should not spend.
In today's economy, I would think there would be lots of young graduates who would give their eye teeth for a job and would prove themselves over time to be "good," just as all experienced teachers have to prove their mettle over the years. Key words: over the years.
And I would imagine these young graduates would work very hard and not take their job lightly, if only because they HAD a job and would not want to risk it by giving it anything less than their very best.
Before I forget, let me say that I admire and respect Mrs. Riley. She has a lot on her plate, especially at 38, I believe, with being a wife, mother, student, and now assistant principal, and I in no way am trivializing her capability, dedication, or commitment to her profession.
What’s done thus far is done. But that doesn’t mean this type of action should continue, nor, for that matter, should it be condoned or left unquestioned, which is why I am posting this.
But I do wonder what the school’s mindset is when they fail to take the opportunity to save even a little money ($10K is far from little to me; you can give it to me if it’s that piddling an amount) when it pertains to new hires and setting their salary. All anyone can say is “no” to a salary that is unacceptable to them. Go from there, but don’t play everybody's friend, the good guy here, by extending your magnanimous generosity. It’s the taxpayers’ money you ask for.
3:11 - I appreciate your comments very much. Believe me I do. Just to be clear I do not think $10k is a piddling amount, I'm sorry if my responsees gave that impression. I stated my feeling about the hiring of the new asst super and I agree she has gotten off the ground running and I think will prove to have been a wise choice. Does'nt change the fact that the salary was too high. But as you say, and I agree, what's past is past and I am not sure why everyone assumes because this decision was made that I was somehow complicit in it. In fact nothing could be further from the truth-but that's not what some on this blog want to hear. For all the people that have scolded me on this blog I ask - where were they when this process was going on? Did they make their feelings known either publicly or privately to the admin or school committee? I can tell you I did along with a few others that I am aware of. A handful of people will not make a difference so here we are casting stones at me as if I sat in judgement about spending tax payer money in a frivolous way. Come on, people must particpate in a meaningful way and maybe some changes can occur. Or not and sit back and complain - which is it? As far as being a good guy, what's the point of being angry and bitter all the time? People here seem to get angry if they can't convince me to come round to their point of view I choose not to respond in kind. I think it helps to keep my blood pressure down.
Greg Jones
You guys are boring me to tears. I'm going to the Lara Stone blog - that's where the action is!
Action??? It's a nice little blurb about her and her family and a list of her accomplishments. No platform at all. What about the issues?
Cool! they're running out of bandwidth on the Lara Stone thread a few threads above this one, let's spread it here. How dare anyone besides the chosen few run for a town seat! Does'nt she realize she needs the permission of the hitching post faithful? Better tow the line Miss Stone or you won't stand a chance.
She won't stand a chance if she is not willing to let her position be known. People are not going to blindly vote for her because she says she wants to get along.
And you've decided, after a scant 24 hours, that she will not let her positions be known? Interesting. Perhaps she would have been better off submitting her positions and intentions to this blog and then let you decide if she was entitled to run.
No, but touchy-feely doesn't cut it. Don't know if I've spelled it right, but let's all hold hands, sway to the music, and sing "Kumbaya."
As a retired town employee, I'd like to thank all Dartmouth tax payers for the wonderful retirement package. Yup, after 32 years I'm finally enjoying the fruits of my labor. I'd like to thank all the SB members for the many years of town dedication and town service. I shall never forget you.
It's difficult to believe that time has past so quickly, It seem just yesterday, when I became a full time employee. Hmmmm in the beginning, Dartmouth was considered a small hick town, with loverly pastures and rolling fields surrounded by stone walls. As I recall, the pay wasn't much but the benefits made up for the lack in salary. What a wonderful town to work in. It seems just like yesterday when developers raped our open space, bought out the small farms and the outsiders came flocking in to buy a new home. The town built new roads and schools. Teachers, as I recall, didn't make much money but they enjoyed the art of teaching. On the horizon, a dark cloud was forming, some woman named Barbara Someone was talking up a state referendum that shall, if voted, limit property tax increase not to exceed 2.5% of total towns property valuation. Now, as I drive through Dartmouth heading to my Florida winter vacation home, I notice all the for sale signs, and foreclosure. The news paper articles tell of the a town in disarray. The SB people must be nuts. Who wants to be ........ I'm just babbling along, don't mind me. I lowered my home thermostat to 55 degree's, the snow is falling and I just turned the radio on. I'm listening to some guy complaining about the weather. I sure hope the sun is shining in Florida. Thanks for all the memories, oops and the retirement package that I worked for. Good luck, see you in May. Don't take this life too serious, your not getting out alive. See ya.
Don't you think if you are going to put out a website stating that you are running for office that it would be a good idea to list some positions? How about some indication of what you stand for or against? Do not blame people for asking the questions and wondering why there are no answers. She has thrown her hat in so the public has a right to know.
anon 10:00 - re-read anon 6:24.
Is standing before the hitching post blog peanut gallery the criteria one measures a candidate by?
I really think people were suffering from cabin fever yesterday! I don't know much about Lara Stone, but I'm sure she will reveal her stand on the issues soon. What would be the point of running if she didn't? Why not wait and see if you agree with her or not?
To be honest, I'm a Gilbert supporter, but I believe in being polite.
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